Dr. Cynthia Carver, Associate Professor and Chair of the Teacher Development in Educational Studies Department at Oakland University, and Marcia Hudson, Elementary Field Coordinator in the School of Education and Human Services, highlight features of the newly revised Elementary Teacher Preparation Program and discuss the lessons learned from the pandemic to inform both the coursework and student teaching. This new program maintains the hallmarks of a practice-based approach informed by state and national standards; a commitment to equity, diversity, inclusion and justice; and personalization of the student experience. Teacher education at Oakland University remains anchored in strong clinical and school partnerships, on-going collaboration among faculty, staff and mentor teachers and is differentiated by its intentional coherence between courses to deepen skills needed to be an effective teacher and teacher leader. https://oakland.edu/teach/undergraduate-degree-programs/elementary-education/
Dr. Bob Maxfield and Dr. Suzanne Klein invite Podcast guests Dr. Cynthia Carver, Associate Professor and Chair of the Teacher Development in Educational Studies Department at Oakland University, in the School of Education and Human Services, and Marcia Hudson, Elementary Field Coordinator, to discuss lessons learned during the pandemic that have informed their teacher preparation program and highlight the prominent features of the newly launched Elementary Teacher Preparation Program.
Dr. Carver explained “about 85% of students take teacher preparation courses through her department, which also works closely with the Reading and Language Arts, and the Department of H.D.C.S. (Human Development and Child Studies).” As a long time teacher educator and scholar of teacher leadership, she is deeply passionate about clinical preparation and partnerships with area schools, which is a key component of the Oakland program. “The university does the work of preparing new teachers in concert with our partners in our local schools, with the implicit expectation of mentor classroom teachers that they are also field-based teacher educators.”
Marcia Hudson incorporates her experience as a teacher, teacher leader and Literacy Consultant in the Avondale Public School District into her current position, which includes “supporting mentor teachers to fully recognize their leadership role as field based teacher educators and live into that vision. It's really necessary that our students have the opportunity to see the great practices that they're learning about taking place within their mentor teachers’ classrooms.”
Marcia Hudson recalled the challenges brought about by the pandemic. “When the pandemic hit, students were in the middle of the semester and suddenly schools closed. Then last fall we had 93 student teachers ready to begin their final internship. When our student teachers were connected with their mentor teachers they developed strong partnerships. Some of our students were taking the lead and helping our mentor teachers navigate new ways of teaching.”
“We didn’t have a vision for fully remote learning. In the past students were being prepared for brick and mortar schools.” Going forward, Dr. Carver described “the intention on the part of university faculty to help prepare students for this new reality of using technology in ways not previously imagined to support student learning and make connections to the community, as well as how to use technology to support our own learning as educators with one another.”
“We learned a lot during the pandemic about the importance of engaging with families who play a vital role in supporting learning. Teaching the whole child is not a new idea though the competencies around S.E.L., social emotional learning, provide new ways for us to think about equitable practices, as well as practices that help kids regulate their emotions and participate in more independent, self-regulated ways in the classroom. Some of the things I mentioned around S.E.L. and family engagement are important curricular pieces that will have a different emphasis going forward.”
“In K-12 education, we are being pushed to reconsider thinking so tightly around the boundaries of the bell schedule, but begin to think more creatively about learning itself, and how learning starts and stops in different ways, on different days around different topics. and the integrated nature of learning that can take place.”
Dr. Carver identified the three hallmarks of the Oakland program: “practice-based teacher preparation; a very important strand around equity and justice; and clinical practice and school partnerships. They existed pre- Covid and offer a lens to look at the past and forward to the future.”
“The redesign of the elementary program took four years as a faculty across departments and offices to define the touchstones of our program; what is it that our graduates would need to experience in order to be well prepared to do no harm when they go into the classroom and be well-started novices. “
“Practice-based teacher preparation focuses on putting theories about teaching into action to develop core practices; the term we use now in the state of Michigan. Every teacher, regardless of subject or grade level, will lead large and small groups and lead discussions. Every teacher will need to build respectful relationships with students and their families. Every teacher will need to help students elicit their thinking. We’re informed by our standards, state and national standards of course, but the difference lies in the way we tie it together in the coherence of our programs.”
“One of the things that makes our program remarkably different from many other programs is the coherence of our programs. We have been very intentional to be collaborative as a faculty. Students are not taking classes that do not connect with one another. The faculty are always in conversation with one another about where their students are and how they are building these concepts and skills and deepening them over time.“
Marcia Hudson added “not only does the faculty continually meet, discuss, and create opportunities for students to make sure there's coherence with everything; they're also working with all of the support staff, they're speaking with advisors, they're speaking with the support team. Another thing that's really special about our new program is that we have faculty meetings and work regularly with the mentor teachers who are working with our students, so it's a full circle of support. I'd like to say that it's almost like a personalized kind of program that we offer to students. “
Dr. Carver emphasized that “part of being an Oakland student means that we care about you as a person and that's absolutely true here. We know our students, we’re following our students, and when students need some extra guidance and help, we're here to help them.
Given the challenges going forward, Dr. Carver indicated “it’s really important that we continue to bring forward the importance of teaching for diversity, equity, and inclusion; looking at ways in which we ensure that our candidates ‘don't do further harm to children’. That's a phrase we're starting to use a lot with one another and we've used it with students. And what we mean by that is that all children have opportunities to learn; all children are celebrated for their strengths; they have a voice in the classroom; they feel safe in the classroom, and that they are appropriately challenged. Also we are looking at the ways in which we are marginalizing students, because of their color or their gender or their ableness, or any number of other factors, and the heightened attention that we're placing on that and how very important that is. If we want to eliminate achievement gaps, we have to create opportunities to learn for all children. We want our teachers to leave our program ready to advocate on behalf of all children and their families and serve all children and their families well. As a faculty we've re-committed ourselves to that important form of teacher leadership.”
Another challenge that Marcia Hudson identified was “ the need to attract the best and brightest to the teaching profession”. As a fifth generation teacher, Marcia Hudson expressed very real concern about the teacher shortage and the negative response going into teaching elicits today. While there is no silver bullet to address it, Dr. Carver suggested that “part of the solution is going to have to be elevating the status of the profession. We have to give teachers as professionals that autonomy back;we have to celebrate their expertise; we have to honor and respect that expertise; we have to compensate that expertise. And we have to thank the teachers that we know and work with.” Dr. Carver and the Oakland University Teacher Preparation Program were featured in the Channel 4 WDIV-DET news broadcast TEACHERS IN HIGH DEMAND, 8/30/2021, 6:50 am.
As cheerleaders for the teaching profession and teacher leadership, Dr. Maxfield and Dr. Klein thanked Dr. Cynthia Carver and Marcia Hudson for sharing their experiences, wisdom and optimism.
To learn more about the Elementary Teacher Preparation Program at Oakland University, School of Education and Human Services:
https://oakland.edu/teach/undergraduate-degree-programs/elementary-education/
Dr. Carver and Marcia Hudson have provided their email addresses should you wish to contact them.
Dr. Cynthia Carver, Associate Professor and Chair of the Teacher Development in Educational Studies Department, carver2@oakland.edu
Marcia Hudson, Elementary Field Coordinator, mlhudson@oakland.edu
Bob Maxfield:
Welcome to Podcast for Leaderful Schools, coming to you almost live from Oakland University in Rochester Michigan, actually from the Galileo Institute, in the School of Education and Human Services. I’m Bob Maxfield and joining me is my ever spectacular co-host, Dr. Sue Klein. Good morning Sue.
[00:15 -->00:31]
Suzanne Klein:
Good morning Bob, good to see you, and I am very excited about our very special guests. They are two of the most wonderful people in the School of Ed and Human Services because they are going to talk with us about teacher leadership today, but they do that kind of work every day.
Bob Maxfield:
[00:32--> 01:54]
They are indeed spectacular. Today’s episode of Podcast for Leaderful Schools is part of a series that we kind of pirated the title from Time Magazine, six months or so ago, called "The Great Reset" and what we have been doing is talking with a number of folks in and outside of education about what has to happen as we emerge for the pandemic. I know when we originally decided on that theme, we had no idea that the pandemic would stay with us as long as it has but, nonetheless we are emerging.
So we've had people from the public policy area, we've had school finance people, we've had some former administrators, we had a consultant who's been working with Suzanne on a multi-program series of teaching and learning sessions, and so today we're going to focus as Sue said on preparing teachers and what the School of Education and Human Services at Oakland is doing to do just that.
Our guests are Dr. Cindy Carver, who is the chair of the Teacher Education Department (Teacher Development in Educational Studies Department) and Marcia Hudson, who is the Coordinator of Field Services and everything else that is good about getting people out of the field to get that practical experience.
Cindy, why don't we begin and let you just briefly introduce yourself and give us a little bit about your background, and then we will turn to Marcia.
[01:55 -->02:57]
Dr. Carver:
Wonderful, it's great to be with you again. Cynthia Carver and I am an Associate Professor and Department Chair for Teacher Development in Educational Studies. And here at Oakland University, that is the department where most of the teacher preparation work takes place. About 85% of students take courses through our department, but we also work really closely with Reading and Language Arts, and the Department of H.D.C.S., Human Development and Child Studies.
So I am delighted to work with you. I can add I have been a long time teacher educator. One of the areas that I'm deeply passionate about is clinical preparation, partnerships with area schools and that is a key component of what Oakland has always prided itself in in the area of teacher preparation. I'm also a scholar of teacher leadership, and those things marry themselves beautifully in my work here in Oakland.
[02:58-03:00]
Bob Maxfield:
Thanks Cindy. Marcia?
[03:01 -->03:47]
Marcia Hudson:
Hi there, so thank you so much for having me. I'm Marcia Hudson and I'm the Elementary Field Coordinator here at Oakland University. I've been with the university for just over two years now, and before that I was a teacher and teacher leader, and literacy consultant actually for the Avondale School District, one of the amazing partnerships that we dell together a few years ago, and I also want to echo Dr. Carver’s idea that I believe that Oakland University is among the finest as far as working with school partners and building collaborative, mutually beneficial partnerships. So I'm really thrilled to be here.
[03:48 --> 03:50]
Bob Maxfield:
And welcome to you as well.
[03:51 -->04:53]
Suzanne Klein:
It's a pleasure to have you both, and as I listened to your backgrounds both of you have been intimately involved in what happens in the day-to-day work of schools, being part of partnership work that has taken university faculty into schools; being part of the staff and teacher leadership in schools.
And I'm going to ask you to take a trip back in the time machine pre-Covid, and that tends to be a marker in many of our lives when we think about what happened before that, and just paint the picture for us a bit when you think about the challenges in public education and within public schools that you faced in the years prior to that, in terms of how you prepare teachers who are willing to step in, able to step in with the knowledge, skills, behaviors, dispositions to successfully educate the boys and girls, or the young men and women. What were the things pre-Covid that were on your plate? We'll talk about post-Covid in a minute but give us some context, if you would.
[04:54 --> 08:15]
Dr. Carver:
So I would love to jump, and when I think of that question Suzanne, I think about the work that we did in redesigning our teacher preparation programs. We are starting and launching our largest program, which is our undergraduate elementary education teacher preparation program. The new program is starting this fall, while we teach out the old program.
And we spent four years as a faculty across departments and offices to really think hard about what would be the touchstones of our program; what is it that our graduates would need to experience in order to be well prepared to do no harm when they go into the classroom and be well-started novices. Now certainly we’re informed by our standards, state and national standards of course, but how do we make those our own? What's going to be distinctive about the O.U. teacher preparation brand?
And three things really stood out to us. One of those was the idea of practice-based teacher preparation. So it's one thing to learn the theory about teaching; it's another to put that theory into action and to develop your core practices, is the term we use now in the state of Michigan. Every teacher regardless of subject or grade level will lead large and small groups and lead discussions. Every teacher will need to build respectful relationships with students and their families. Every teacher will need to help students elicit their thinking. So these are the types of teaching practices that we're building into our program, and that was pre-Covid.
A second very, very important strand is around equity and justice. All children deserve opportunities to learn and we need to look at how do we build those respectful relationships with students that help them learn; and how do we dismantle structures that are oppressive and keep kids from learning and how do we help teachers see those.
And the third piece that I mentioned a few minutes ago was around this idea of clinical practice. That we can't do this work alone by ourselves at the university, but we have to do this work in concert with our partners in our local schools, and that we place this implicit expectation on classroom teachers that are working with us that they are also field-based teacher educators, which is a different skill set and a different way of thinking than working with the little people or the bigger people that they're working with a K-12 setting.
Those are three hallmarks of our program that definitely preceded the pandemic, but have become interesting lenses from which to look past and forward. What I mean is look past what we were doing and look forward to the future.
[08:16 --> 08:31]
Suzanne Klein:
Marcia, you might have some interesting perspective because you were in a local school district pre-pandemic for quite a long time and had those interesting roles as teacher, teacher leader, Language Arts Consultant. Jump in and paint the picture for us from the school district perspective.
[08:32 --> 10:11]
Marcia Hudson:
Yes, absolutely. So I think that what Dr. Carver was saying about the fact that the teachers that are working with our students here at Oakland University are school based educators and that they are very much a part of the preparation of a teacher. That is an identity that I think that some teachers readily take up but I don't always think that they recognize that within themselves. So part of the work I was doing in Avondale was to help bridge that chasm if you will, between that identity work because our mentor teachers are so, so vital in the preparation of a teacher. And it's really necessary that our students have the opportunity to see these great practices that they're learning about in their classrooms, taking place within their mentor teachers’ classrooms. I think that the challenge sometimes for me when I was working in the Avondale Schools or with other districts in the county, was to help mentor teachers really recognize that leadership piece within themselves, and also help to gather the resources and everything necessary so that they can live into that vision, if you will.
[10:11 -->10:36]
Suzanne Klein:
That gives us the university as well as the district perspective, as well as shows us where the connections which are strong in the case of Oakland University and partners like Avondale. And the pandemic lives, and so there's challenges, opportunities and lessons learned that I would ask next to think about with us and Marcia, maybe we start with you on this one.
[10:37 --> 12:55]
Marcia Hudson:
Right, so we like everybody, when the pandemic hit if you will, we were, our students were actually right in the middle of their semester. We had students that were out in schools that were immediately kind of dismissed; everybody went home and kind of buckled in. And then the following fall, we had 93 student teachers that were ready to begin their final leg of their internships and if we can put ourselves back in the ‘way back machine’ which is just a year ago, we were also in K-12 trying to figure out how we were going to connect with our students.
So there was a lot of conversation, a lot of professional learning around how do you work Google classroom, how do you manage with the zoom lesson. I am happy to say even though we were actually in a space of how are we going to be able to pull all this off, our students really lead that in many ways. When we were finally able to connect our student teachers with their mentor teachers, they were working in lovely partnerships and actually some of our students were helping to kind of take the lead and helping our mentor teachers navigate that new way of teaching. It was an incredible challenge;I'm really proud of the work of supervisors and our faculty, and everybody that was involved in that. I think that looking back, it's one of those things like how did we pull that off, but we did.
And the other piece though that I’d just like to mention is that many of our students were never able to actually to go physically into a classroom. So we have a group of students right now that have not physically been present in a brick and mortar school and they're starting to go out now. There's a group of students that haven't had that experience and so it'll be really interesting to see how their program continues to unfold.
[12:27 --> 12:33]
Suzanne Klein:
Dr. Carver, what would you like to add from the University perspective, because I know from the teacher preparation department coursework and things to prepare them for the internship that Marcia was just talking about, there was a lot of work going on as well , that were from the lesson learned?
[12:43 -->15:33]
Dr. Carver:
Yes, and I'm going to. Marcia described well there is this effort, the intention on our part to help prepare students for this new reality of using technology in ways that go beyond what we even previously imagined. We didn't have this vision for fully remote learning that everyone would be doing before. There were remote online schools previously, but that was a small, small percentage and we were preparing students to be in brick and mortar schools. So that has changed, and the way we use technology to support learning and what we've learned about how to do that. We've learned some real attractive opportunities, affordances that have come from using technology.
I'm going to add two other things, though. We, I think learned a lot during the pandemic about the importance of and how to engage with families and the vital role that families play in supporting children as learners, even our teenagers as learners. I'm hopeful that that is something that will continue to be developed and embraced and supported in our teacher preparation programming, our curriculum.
Another is the whole area around S.E.L., social emotional learning, teaching the whole child. We have talked about this on and off over the years. Teaching the whole child is not a new idea but though the competencies around S.E.L., social emotional learning, provide new ways for us thinking about equitable practices, as well as practices that help kids regulate their emotions and participate in more independent, self-regulated ways in the classroom.
And if there's anything that we are being pushed to reconsider I think in education K-12 schooling, it's stop thinking so tightly around the boundaries of the bell schedule, but begin to think more creatively about learning itself, and how learning starts and stops in different ways on different days around different topics, and the integrated nature of learning that can take place. So if our students can leave our program being advocates for those kinds of changes that address the needs of children and teenagers where they are right now, we’ll be ready to change the world.
[15:35 -->16:08]
Suzanne Klein:
You both have given us some glimpses of what the pre-Covid and the post-Covid challenges and opportunities are. Fast forward to the future and Dr. Carver, you started the conversation in terms of looking forward. How's it going to be reflected in the teacher preparation program at Oakland going forward? What kinds of things might there be in the classroom instruction, as well as in the field experiences and student teaching that's different, as a result of the Covid lessons learned?
[16:10 --> 17:49]
Dr. Carver:
Certainly some of the things I mentioned around S.E.L. and family engagement are important piece. They were part of our curriculum, I think they will have a different emphasis going forward. We're always responding to the field and what's needed. I think what can be markedly different is the way we're using instructional technology because I think we have a vision for the use of instructional technology that has changed.
And that we can begin to think as classroom teachers about how to use technology to support students’ learning, to support connections to the community and it might be bringing someone in that zooms into the classroom, that we used to have to think how are we going to get that person to drive over to the building and work, and now we can bring people in. We're learning that it's really easy to do that. We can bring parents and families in; some of the applications that allow kids or parents to have a view of what's happening in the classroom and know more about their student’s work and following it, or what's appropriate to be done at home, and what and how do we use the time we have kids in the classroom. So I think we're learning a lot and I think we're also learning how to use technology to support our own learning as educators with one another because I've always been a firm believer that schools are not just places for kids to learn but they should also be places where teachers are learning.
[18:23-18:25]
Suzanne Klein:
Absolutely.
[18:25-19:02]
Bob Maxfield:
I think if we were talking to your counterparts, both of your counterparts from another university from across the state or across the nation, they would say some of the same things. They’d say that we're really interested in promoting practice-based teacher prep; we care about equity and justice; clinical practices are important and clinic partnerships are important, using of technology is effective, but what is there about the Oakland program from both your perspectives that makes it more unique and from your perspective better, and why a student should be considering coming here, coming to Oakland instead of one of those other places?
[19:03 --> 20:04]
Dr. Carver:
Gosh, I love that question. So part of it I think, is the way we tie it together in the coherence of our programs. So that's a word that we use a lot among ourselves is coherence. That our students aren't taking this class from Marcia Hudson, and this class from Tuf Francis, and this class from Patty Bills; these are our faculty members and individuals who are teaching our classes, and that they don't connect with one another. We are very intentional that all of our classes are building, we are always in conversation with one another so where is Marcia leaving off her students so that Patty can pick them up, and where does Tuf get those students and how are we building these concepts and these skills and deepening them over time. I think that's one of the things that makes our program remarkably different than many other programs is we have been very intentional to be collaborative as a faculty.
Part of being an Oakland student means that we care about you as a person and that's absolutely true here. We know our students, we’re following our students, we’re cheerleaders for students, and when students need some extra guidance and help we're here, we're here to help them.
[20:06-->20:37]
Bob Maxfield:
Marcia, you're out there in the community talking to people all over, how do you respond to that? Why should someone be considering Oakland over any one of the other high quality programs?
[20:38 --> 22:57]
Marcia Hudson:
I absolutely agree with everything that Dr. Carver said, and I can even extend that from the standpoint that not only does the faculty continually meet and discuss and think about and create opportunities for students and make sure there's like a through line of coherence with everything, they're also working with all of the support staff, so myself in the field office; they're speaking with advisors; they're speaking with the support team, so we really do I think... And I think I might actually have a teacher in the future, one of my children might end up here at Oakland University.
But I think that hands down our program just offers so much, and I'd like to say that it's almost like a personalized kind of program that we offer to students: we work really hard to connect.;we communicate as often as we can; we set up all sorts of experiences so that they can if they want to meet with us individually they can, if they were to come to the, we have a School and Field Services house party online once a month, so that they can just come together and ask questions and think together.
But I think that there's real intentionality behind the design of the program. I was thrilled to be able to see our new program; the new elementary education program, was basically just launched yesterday and so I had the opportunity to see the three faculty members that are going to be leading the seminar course, which is kind of like the homeroom for the team, for the cohort. I had an opportunity to be with them and share what their field experiences would look like, but it's just so evident that there's all sorts of wonderful opportunities for our students.
The other thing that's really special about our new program is that we have faculty that are going to be meeting and working regularly with the mentor teachers that are working with our students, so it's just a lovely kind of full circle 360 support.
[22:58 -->23:25]
Bob Maxfield:
Those are really important elements, and being over the years somewhat close to your program, I know that a lot of effort went into remaking the secondary education program, and now you're... delighted to hear you're rolling out the new version of the elementary and you have obviously lots to be proud of. What remains to be done, what are the challenges going forward that you are going to be encouraging your faculty and partner teachers to take on?
[23:28 -->25:12]
Dr. Carver:
I am going to jump in because one of the things I think is really important that we continue to bring forward and the pandemic did reinforce this for us, and that is the importance of teaching for diversity, equity and inclusion, and looking at ways in which we insure that our candidates don't do further harm to children. That's a phrase we're starting to use a lot with one another and we've used it with students.
And what we mean by that is: all children have opportunities to learn; all children are celebrated for their strengths; they have a voice in the classroom; they feel safe in the classroom; and that they are appropriately challenged. But also that we are looking at the ways in which we are marginalizing students because of their color or their gender or their ableness, or any number of other factors, and the heightened attention that we're placing on that and how very important that is. If we want to eliminate achievement gaps, we have to create opportunities to learn for all children and that is an area that we want. So when we talk about teacher leadership that is an area we want our teachers to leave our program ready to advocate on behalf of all children and their families, and serve all children and their families well. That is an important form of leadership that we feel very… we've re-committed ourselves to that as a faculty.
[25:13-->25:21]
Bob Maxfield:
But it's a very challenging, and very difficult one to take on. Marcia, what do you think? Challenges going forward?
[25:22--> 26:02]
Marcia Hudson:
I think a challenge, maybe it was happening before the pandemic and it continues on now, but it's just to… Our profession needs to attract the best and brightest among us, and so the idea that whatever we can do here at Oakland University to provide a really amazing teacher preparation program helps. But we need the very best to be leading our classrooms across our nation, and so the teacher shortage is still, it's a real thing and it's a concern. It continues to be a concern.
[26:05 --> 26:49]
Bob Maxfield:
Picking up on that concern, as we get near the end of our time let's focus on that. So going forward, what do you think we can do and need to do to encourage more of the best and brightest, more of a potentially great teachers to reconsider the profession?
I think what's true when I left Oakland a few years ago; what was true then and what I think is true now, we’ll still run into professional educators who will say, 'I do not want my child to be a teacher', which to me is the ultimate damning statement. So how do we counteract that? How do we convince the next generation of young people to see this is not just a good career but an outstanding career for their future?
[26:50 --> 28:13]
Dr. Carver:
Bob, I’ve had the opportunity to be asked this question several times recently, and there's no silver bullet. It's not going to be this one thing that we find that's going to solve that problem. But I do think part of the solution is going to have to be elevating the status of the profession. We're going to have to start recognizing the professionalism of teachers; we're going to have to start taking some of the shackles away and what I mean by that is, teachers are feeling very restricted in what they can and can't do. They're being told exactly what to teach and when and how. Things have become so standardized and so uniform and there were some reasons for that, to create efficiencies in our system and to make sure that all students were being noticed and paid attention to, but it's taken away that creativity and the autonomy of teachers. We have to give teachers as professionals that autonomy back, we have to celebrate their expertise, we have to honor and respect that expertise. We have to compensate that expertise. And we have to thank the teachers that we know and work with.
[28:15 --> 28:27]
Bob Maxfield:
Marcia, you mentioned one of the children in your family who might very well be considering a career education. What's the message that maybe has worked with that child and hopefully could work with more?
[28:28 --> 30:49]
Marcia Hudson:
Well, I think that... I’m a fifth generation teacher. I was just going through, looking through some family documents and I found the teaching contract that my grandmother was given in 1911 and she made $1,100 to be a teacher in the Romulus School District back then.
But going back to my child, so my child obviously has lived and heard the stories day-to-day, month-to- month, year-to-year. We're a household that has always supported public education and teachers and teaching. And I think that we're like anybody else, we've heard, we've seen the good, seen the bad. We've heard the stories that kind of make our heart crinkled a little bit and we’ve also been a part of some amazing things that have happened in public schools. Maybe we've chosen to cast the light, shine the light on the positive and to honor the work of teachers and educators, and maybe that's been just a constant kind of thing that's happened enough so that my child has said, “You know I really think that might be the thing for me.” And quite honestly I'm the same person. When I graduated from high school in 1983, the last thing I was going to do was be a teacher. I had been a part of all sorts of conversations and had heard some kind of negative things and I thought why would anybody want to do that. I started and had one semester at Oakland University; I decided I was going to be a child psychologist and that lasted about three weeks and I was just drawn to it. So I think there is a piece of that and I’m seeing that with students now, that there is a lot of students that we work with that are being told, don't go in education, you'll never make any money, it's not for you, and they still find us and they're still here.
[30:50 --> 30:56]
Bob Maxfield:
I think part of that, 'don't go into education', is also a reflection of the experience that parent has had him or herself,
[30:56-->30:57]
Marcia Hudson:
Absolutely.
[30:58 --> 32:02]
Bob Maxfield:
where they haven't given the sort of autonomy that Cindy talked about, where they haven’t been compensated for their extra work, where frankly they finished thirty years and felt devalued throughout the process.
So the two of you have responded to this beautifully Marcia, from a personal perspective of what we have to do to just keep telling the story and Cindy, from more of a systemic and institutional perspective of how the system needs to be changed before we can change that and start seeing the numbers change. But my concern is that in the next five years we're going to be losing more than we're going to be getting at a time when it should be the opposite.
So as we're near the end of our time, a last question Suzanne and I always ask is, if somebody wants to know more about what the two of you are saying how can they find out? I begin by saying I’m sure you wouldn’t mind if we post your email addresses on our website, on the podcast website. Is there anything else you would like to call to the attention of somebody who's heard this and like to know more?
[32:04 --> 32:18]
Marcia Hudson:
Please reach out. We are always happy to answer any questions. I’d love to meet with people, especially prospective students, and really happy to share the great things that are happening here at Oakland University.
[32:20 --> 32:32]
Dr. Carver:
Marcia captured that well. We're always updating our online presence. So that’s another way to learn more about us it, by going online.
[32:32 --> 32:45]
Bob Maxfield:
We should make those links on our website as well, so that people have that. So Suzanne, what have we missed today? Is there anything that we were hoping to have gotten to that we hadn’t?
[32:46--> 33:28]
Suzanne Klein:
I think there's been a very interesting picture painted of schools with their challenges, departments of lessons learned but then the role of Oakland teacher education program is playing in keeping teachers who are coming back for graduate programs which we haven't touched on today, still growing as learners and so they're going to go back refreshed, renewed and ready for the new challenges, but then also attracting new folks to the field, because it's one of the best opportunities ever to do work that matters with the children that we serve. So I always come away inspired when I talked with these two folks, today was no exception Bob.
[33:30 -->34:00]
Bob Maxfield:
They are the best for sure. The two best guests today have also given us their permissions to make sure that this is distributed and we always want to be sure we remind people of that. So to our listeners, thank you for being part of this installment of Podcast for Leaderful Schools. As always, we are almost live from Oakland University and the Galileo Institute at Oakland University. So again Marcia and Cindy, thank you for sharing your experiences, your wisdom and your optimism with us.
To learn more about the Elementary Teacher Preparation Program:
https://oakland.edu/teach/undergraduate-degree-programs/elementary-education/
To contact our podcast guests:
Dr. Cynthia Carver, carver2@oakland.edu
Marcia Hudson, mlhudson@oakland.edu