Dr. Kevin Corcoran, Oakland University Dean of the College of Arts and Sciences and psychologist, offers a candid assessment of the pandemic’s impact on students and faculty at universities, and PK-12 school leaders as all are navigating the challenges of racial equity, political polarization, economic uncertainty, and gaps in student learning. Dr. Corcoran views these stressors as inseparable, creating a “wicked problem” the effect of which is a toll on emotional well being. Stress like kryptonite to Superman, diminishes the capacity to lead and serve others, thus he recommends prioritizing time for restorative activities. Dr. Corcoran’s advocacy for administrators, teachers, students and families will continue with the post-COVID reset of education.
Dr. Kevin Corcoran, Dean of the College of Arts and Sciences at Oakland University, provides a personal assessment of the impact of the pandemic on the PK-20 experience. Pivoting to forms of remote teaching and learning has significantly altered the university experience for students, staff and faculty.
As a trained psychologist, he identifies the effects on students’ social and emotional well being. For some incoming students, who had an abbreviated senior year of high school, the structured schedule and social interaction of a traditional classroom are essential. Lacking private time and space to express emotional needs is also problematic for some students. Some faculty have grappled with recreating the educational experience in a remote setting and sought options to create supportive relationships with their students.
Dr. Corcoran recalled the recent conversation with school superintendents in which he referenced the research on the importance of human connection as a significant challenge in this pandemic. Analogous to our financial bank account is our emotional bank account, wherein positive experiences create deposits. In their daily work educators may attract a barrage of negativity and be treated less like a human being and more like a “punching bag”, reducing their emotional bank account. Dr. Corcoran commented poignantly on how this loss of human identity resonates with each of us.
PK-20 leaders face the daunting tasks of navigating the complex issues of racial equity; political polarization around the presidential election; economic fallout from the pandemic; differing opinions within their community favoring in-person or remote learning; and learning loss for students. Dr. Corcoran classifies these independent stressors, multiplicative and inseparable in nature, as a systemically “wicked problem” which becomes worse for those whom the pandemic has exacerbated the social, political, educational and economic challenges.
Faced with the enormity of responding to these stressors, his message to educators emphasizes the importance of self-care and care for those within the organization, making the case for essential restorative activities. While it may appear inherently selfish, Dr. Corcoran reminds leaders that stress, like kryptonite for Superman, can diminish their capacity to contribute to family and community, as well as serve the needs of others.
The podcast conversation concludes by pondering the aftermath of the pandemic: the extent of the emotional, psychological and psychiatric fallout for students who may have missed a full year of school and socialization; for educators who have tried to juggle all of these things; and for families dealing with the challenges impacting them. With an intentional reset as an option, the curriculum, instruction and assessment could look different, as well as the social and emotional learning and support for students, their families and all who work in the education. Dr. Corcoran offers some optimistic advice in closing: if we each went into conversations looking for opportunities to be changed, we would be enhanced, our emotional bank account would receive deposits, and a lot more that mattered might get done.
Bob Maxfield: This is Podcast for Leaderful Schools coming to you live from Oakland University in Rochester, Michigan. Today it's coming to you less than almost live, but it's almost live on Zoom. This is Bob Maxfield, and I'm with my wonderful co-host, Dr. Suzanne Klein, and today we're officially renewing the Podcast for Leaderful School series, which began back about 14 years ago. More than 200 episodes have been recorded over the years. You're going to be seeing as regular listeners, and I hope our new listeners will be seeing an inventory of the previous programs categorized in a way that can still be accessible. We hope you stay tuned, but we've got a wonderful beginning today.
And we'll introduce our guest in just a second. Sue, we always begin by saying, how are things, though we're recording on a beautiful day here in Michigan.
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Suzanne Klein: It is lovely. I just was outside for a quick walk and it's blue skies, high 40s, and you forget that winter may be around the corner. You just have to savor the moment and today was a day to savor, no doubt about it.
[01:07.500]
Bob Maxfield: Savoring it in mid-December is a bonus, so we are delighted. Our guest today is Dr. and Dean Kevin Corcoran. I've known Kevin for many years in my time at Oakland and he's one of the people I respect the most. Kevin has been the Dean of the College of Arts and Sciences since 2013. He came to us from Northern Kentucky University. He's a psychologist by trade, and in a minute, you'll see why that's relevant.
Recently he was named by Oakland's president in addition to being the Dean of the College of Arts and Sciences, because that wasn't a full time enough job; he was named the Chief Community Engagement Officer. That is worth mentioning because Kevin has provided important leadership at Oakland University in helping this university become a community engaged university and much we have to thank him for. Before went on the air we were talking a bit about that. So Kevin, thanks for being with us and we're just delighted.
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Kevin Corcoran: I'm thrilled to be here, Bob and Suzanne.
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Bob Maxfield: And part of that, let me say, one of the things as a context, that a couple weeks ago we invited Kevin to preside over a virtual meeting with a group of 15 or so local school superintendents to help them understand the social and emotional issues that they might be feeling and certainly their staffs, their communities, their students are feeling, as it relates to this most unprecedented time, with the current pandemic. And that's really our topic for today. So Sue, let me turn it over to you.
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Suzanne Klein: Well, you've given me a nice lead-in Bob, because Kevin we thought we would start talking a little bit about your day job, the regular part of the job, other duties as assigned and then, what the pandemic has brought forward as important at Oakland University for students, faculty, and staff. So walk us through that, would you please?
[03:08.580]
Kevin Corcoran: Sure, again, a pleasure to be with both of you. So the College of Arts and Sciences at Oakland accounts for about 60% of all the undergraduate credits, 60 to 65%, and all of the core curriculum or general education. I think it's 95% of those courses are within the College of Arts and Sciences. I bring that up because that means that we're for most students the first point of contact with the university. They may have one course in their major but for most students, the rest of their courses are within the College of Arts and Sciences, so as we see these brand new students coming this fall, and having had, in many cases, the last couple of months of their senior year of high school nipped in the bud, and then they come to Oakland, and we-
Our president very early in the summer talked about our taking a hybrid approach, which at our placement, a little bit of everything. It was a mixture of some in-person classes with social distancing. All of our science labs were in-person with social distancing. So you have to think about things like, what if somebody's wearing a mask and they sneeze? How do you handle that? All of these things that a year ago would have seemed like science fiction.
And so for example, in that case, we learned by experience. For each of our labs, there was a separate clean room that people could go to if they needed to pull their masks down and just take a few breaths, because those labs last three or four hours, in many cases, or if you sneeze. And so also making sure that every faculty member brought extra face masks with them to class, in case something like that happened, in case somebody forgot them.
So, back to the narrative. We did some face-to-face. We did some face-to-face but virtual, like we're doing right now, where in real time you're talking to somebody on the screen, and then face-to-face not kind connected not contemporaneous, which we refer to as asynchronous. I will just note that type of course tends to be very difficult for a brand new college student, because they benefit from the structure that comes along with knowing that on Tuesday and Thursday at two o'clock, I have to be "in class", whether that's a separate room in a building on campus or whether that's sitting at my desk at home.
And then finally, we had some hybrids; where there was a bit of an in-person component where that fit the needs best, and then there was some virtual, whether it was synchronous or asynchronous. And then of course what happened, and it was right around the time we had the meeting with the superintendents, we went completely remote because of the spike in cases, and the incidence.
We went to either synchronous or asynchronous, but it was all online, including some labs. And so we pivoted in that way, very much like March, in that we just had a couple days’ notice. So how has this changed my life? Completely, I spend a lot more time at home.
And we've learned a whole lot of things. I mean, I've learned to pay attention to positivity rates, which I started paying attention to in mid-October. And as I started them seeing them increase, I started saying to department chairs, "You know, I think we're heading in a direction where you might want to anticipate. I don't have any insider information. But this seems to be the direction we're going in." Which is part of what I have always seen my job as Dean as being, is to kind of try to give people some sense of what might lie ahead as they're trying to battle through the muck they're dealing with at the moment. So I'll just kind of close with we're in finals exam time now.
I've talked to a number of faculty who have said they've modified requirements because they see the stress in the students. They see the students being overwhelmed. Several faculty have done things like turn on the connection, the Zoom or whatever the method used is, turning it on earlier to allow students to interact with one another and gather the way people do in a traditional class.
And I will tell you that while students have felt adrift often, I've heard from a lot of faculty how much they missed students; how much they missed seeing them; how much they missed those little interactions that you have just before and just after class, or in the hallways on your way from point A to point B.
And this kind of configuration where you're looking at a screen, first of all, is more difficult to make private. So students who might have been struggling with something, where they could talk to a faculty member after class for five minutes they don't have that opportunity. And also, it just seems more formal because it's so public and it's a real challenge for many of our folks. So we got our fingers crossed for vaccines. We got our fingers crossed for, the what we call "winter semester", the semester that starts in January. And we will begin that virtually for the first two weeks, so that we allow people to be more isolated as they're coming back from wherever they've been with family or wherever.
[08:59.670]
Bob Maxfield: You have alluded to the fact that students certainly feel adrift and there's a certain stress level that goes with it. How about faculty though, as we make the transition to what you learned in talking with our high school or our K-12 people but university faculty, has this been an easy transition or- easy, or
[09:21.480]
Kevin Corcoran: It's been a difficult transition for most and for a whole variety of reasons. Some people are not as comfortable with technology, 'I've never taught using technology before short of you know, beyond a PowerPoint in a classroom.' And so they've been trying to figure out how do I recreate an educational experience in this domain, that I don't really know very much about. Then, as I mentioned a couple minutes ago, earlier today, I had three different faculty members tell me in the last 24 hours, how much they miss their students and how this was better than nothing. They were certainly glad to be able to do the course synchronously. So it's face-to-face, but it's a mediated face-to-face. But it wasn't the same and they just missed them. And in fact, one faculty member was telling me yesterday she was reading final papers, and she said she had tears coming down her cheeks, because she realized that this was the major way she was really going to get to know the students, because they were faces on a screen for the entirety of the semester. But when she asked them to do deeper reflection on things that were happening-
Just a quick note, this was a communication class and what she did was, she had them do email interviews with local corporate leaders about how they were coping with COVID and then asked them to reflect on what they heard from these corporate leaders. And so they were talking about their own lives,
[11:04.410]
Suzanne Klein: Uh huh.
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Kevin Corcoran: in light of what the corporate leaders were having to do, actually very much like the superintendents, right? Similar challenge.
[11:12.720]
Bob Maxfield: Well, speaking of that, let's turn to that meeting that you joined us on with a group of our local superintendents. What was your message to them? I mean, because you've just gotten through describing how you've helped your faculty deal with a pandemic at the university level. And we had talked in advance most of things you might want to say, but recall for us a bit of what you said to that group of superintendents, and then I want to talk about what you heard from them.
[11:42.090]
Kevin Corcoran Yeah, well one of the key messages that I was trying to deliver and just to be clear; I really wanted this to be about them and not me. And so I focused on trying to keep my remarks brief and giving them most of the time to have conversation and reflect and react.
But I talked about some research on the importance of human connection. And in some cases, this is not research I talked about, but a lot of people who would be listening to this podcast and certainly you all would be familiar with the research of Tiffany Field. Tiffany Field was the psychologist who did the research on the importance of babies being touched. And what they found was that preemies, who were touched, at six months out had more bone density. I mean that's not "foo foo". Their head circumferences were greater, all of those kinds of physiological metrics, and also saw that their heart rates decreased as they were being touched. We know that from research now that the same thing happens with the elderly.
It's one of those challenges. Right, so part of what I talked about was the importance of human connection, and that's one of the ways in which we're challenged right now. And then the point that I think really resonated for these folks, because it came back several different ways, in different ways at different times during the conversation, was that idea that we have, analogous to our financial bank account, we have an emotional bank account. An account that when positive things happen to us, when we have a nice walk on a beautiful day, we're making deposits into that emotional bank account. Absolutely, we're allowing that to store up.
Suzanne, you and I talked a couple weeks before that about a podcast called, Poetry Unbound, it's 10 minutes long. It slows you down; you listen to a poem, you listen to a melodious voice giving you a perspective on the poem, and then you listen to the poem again. Those kinds of things add: but also the connection with other people, the holding hands with a loved one, the seeing the face of somebody you care about, all of those kinds of things add to the emotional bank account.
Now, not having those things starts to draw on the emotional bank account, and then having to deal with all of these crazy things that we've all had to deal with, and most of all these superintendents, where the rules keep changing. And the rules are changing in an area that they've chosen to devote their lives to, so it's clearly something of great import to them. If the rules keep changing on a sporting event that I don't really care about it doesn't bother me. There's no draw on my emotional bank account so one of the challenges that people, in positions like those superintendents have, is how you do replenish that bank account. How do you make sure you take those walks?
[15:12.690]
Suzanne Klein: When there's a..
[15:13.350]
Kevin Corcoran: zillion things to do, and 25 emails in the last 10 minutes to respond to, angry parents, frustrated board members, all happening in the context of all of these decisions appearing to be connected with politics, and people's political attitudes just keep drawing on that account.
[15:43.170]
Bob Maxfield: You made a good point in response to one of their questions about the fact that even without the pandemic; this would have been a difficult year. Difficult year because of the: renewal of concerns about racial equity following the George Floyd killing. Difficult year because of the incredible polarization around the presidential election.
[16:08.430]
Kevin Corcoran: Yeah, and it's a challenging context that was a 1-2-3 punch. Then again the superintendents are on the front line of that, of those issues. We all face them to some degree, but the other thing that I think is key, Bob, is those three things are multiplicative. They're not three independent stressors and they're not even additive. You put those together and it's an exponential function. And it becomes incredibly stressful. And you can't tease them apart to only deal with one of them, which is what makes it a “wicked problem”.
[16:53.490 ]
Suzanne Klein: Yeah. One of the remarkable parts of that conversation Kevin, and I'm still thinking about it as we're speaking again together today, is the way the stage was set with the information you shared about some of the research finding predictability, and then how open the conversation quickly became,because these were not people that were best friends. They were across three counties, region wise. They happen to make up 40 some percent of the students in the state in terms of their school district, but many of them have never met each other before. Some of them had been in the business of being a superintendent for a decade or more, others for just months. And suddenly you had convened this very human, open, and vulnerable conversation which seemed like you had just given a gift to all of them.
[17:48.570]
Kevin Corcoran: Well, thank you. And in fact, I would quibble with the word that Bob used a few minutes ago. I didn't feel like I presided; I felt like I was a witness.
[17:59.400 ]
Bob Maxfield: Preside is a bad word, your witness is a better word. You're absolutely right.
[18:03.090]
Kevin Corcoran: I was a participant and a witness to it and it was incredibly gratifying to have been able to do, what whatever little thing that I did, to create the space where people felt comfortable. And, you know, if you recall a couple of the first two folks, two or three folks, were kind of telling their story. Yes, it opened the door to other people to both tell their story, and then talk about their reaction and their frustration. The one, I think it was one of the first year superintendents, who said he felt like a punching bag. Yes. That phrase has stuck with me during the three plus weeks since we've done that and one of the things that it immediately triggered in my head, and I think I made the comment, 'Yes, punching bags are not human'. Yes. And so you feel people are treating you in such a way that's promoting a feeling of you're not a human being; I don't really need to care about you; I don't really need to connect with you, and punching bags don't have feelings.
[19:14.970 ]
Suzanne Klein: And I feel I have permission to act out my own concerns and you are going to be the target of those, thank you very much.
[19:21.540]
Kevin Corcoran: Exactly. And then we've got those three things woven together. And as we were talking about it, we've got those three things that you described, Bob. We also have a fourth one, which are economic stressors: people worried about their jobs; people losing their jobs; one of the family members losing their job. And so you've got other people's emotional bank account being drawn down. And you know the metaphor, playing with this metaphor, they're trying to rob from these superintendents' bank accounts because theirs been drawn down.- bear that theirs was drawn down.
[20:01.800 ]
Bob Maxfield: One of the statements that illustrates that, and I don't remember if you promoted it or somebody else mentioned that, and that is during this time, most everybody's asking the same question. The problem is they want different answers. And I've used it many times since because they all want to know are kids going to be safe at school. It's just that they have a different answer from the person next door.
[20:32.310]
Kevin Corcoran: Well, I'd also say the other tandem question to that Bob is, how are you going to keep our kids safe.
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Suzanne Klein: Mm hmm.
[20:40.950]
Kevin Corcoran: If the answer is by having them stay home, you're wrong with half the group and if you have it be coming into the classroom, you're wrong with the other half. And there're probably some people in the middle, for whom you're wrong no matter which one you decide.
[20:57.180]
Suzanne Klein: I think you're right about that. And given that Kevin is that is the reality to which these people are walking into everyday or Zooming into every day, shall we say. Part of your message also was the importance for them to take care of themselves and this notion of self-care and care for those that are close around them in their organization is a key piece.And yet at the same time you also heard the message that some: of them don't think they have a ton of skills to do that. They're just walking around with all of this stuff in that emotional bank account and their balance is getting lower and lower. You want to talk about how you advise them about that because I think that was so helpful.
[21:43.830]
Kevin Corcoran: Yeah, well, the folks who go into education, they go into it for other people. You don't go into it for the glory of it all, and certainly not for the financial riches that come along with being an educator. As I said before, they're fully committed and it can feel selfish. It can feel: for someone with that approach to their work and that approach to life and there are so many needs out there that seem greater than mine.
[22:22.530]
Suzanne Klein: Yes, but…
[22:23.310]
Kevin Corcoran: I'm not hungry. I've got enough to eat. I have a job. Who am I to say this is too much for me right now, when other people have more "too much". The problem is, and that's where I like, it's not a perfect analogy, but that's where I like the bank account. Because there are people who have less money than I do, but if I give them all my money and more, then I'm not going to be able to do my work. I'm not going to be able to do the things I do that add value to other people's lives. So it perhaps in the short run appears selfish. But we've got to encourage folks to look in the longer run, in a more extended time frame because you know, as much as some of us might like to think of us as having the cape and the "S": on our shirt, stress is kryptonite for Superman.
[23:28.020]
Suzanne Klein: And
[23:28.680]
Kevin Corcoran: When you get stressed, you lose those superpowers that you have as a superintendent, as a family member, as a community member, as somebody who can contribute. And so you really need to balance that out with those deposits to the bank account: the taking an evening where you just chill, the time away, the engaging with family, the going for a walk on a nice day because you know there aren't going to be that many more nice days. You take them where you can get them. I think that those are critical things and they require a change in mindset. I think the other thing, that often folks like the folks that we talked to last month are challenged to do, is tell other people they need that time. You know, I'm not going to be around for the next 30 minutes because I'm going to go for a walk.
I'll just tell you a quick story. John Gardner, that guy had created Common Cause and was Secretary of Health, Education, and Welfare under Lyndon Johnson, used to leave work every day at 4:30. The Cabinet Secretary leaving work at 4:30, and finally, this young intern went up to him and said, 'Mr.Secretary, I need to ask you, because I'd like to learn from you, what is it that you do every day at 4:30, and why do you leave here?' And he said, 'because what they pay me to do is think. And if I'm sitting there with the phone ringing and people knocking at my door, I can't think. So I need to go someplace else to think and that way I can come back tomorrow and do a better job.'
[25:16.320]
Suzanne Klein: I love that story.
[25:18.990]
Bob Maxfield: You know, as we get near the end of our time together today, Suzanne and I have thought a lot about this stuff since this session three weeks ago with the superintendents. I wondered, I'm sure you have too, if some other thoughts occurred to you. One that when came up in meeting yesterday and I don't think it was really explicit three weeks ago, but I'm hearing it more and more. And it has to do with when this is all over, what's going to be the emotional and psychological and psychiatric fallout with the children who have been out of school for more than a year and miss that socialization, with the teachers who have been trying to juggle all of these things, with the families that are dealing with all the things we alluded to earlier in terms of balancing their jobs, their economic future and their children's wellbeing. I guess that's the next challenge down the road, but I think it's going to change, that it needs to change the focus of schools. I wonder what are your thoughts on that.
[26:22.290]
Kevin Corcoran: I'm going to make your problem even more wicked, Bob, unfortunately, which is: that everything that you said is worse for people who are already disadvantaged; they're less likely to get their job back, their kids are going to have a steeper hill to climb in trying to get back there, probably more, they're certainly more likely to have mental health problems.
And I'll just say at the college and university level, in five years there will be some universities that exist today, that don't exist. And this will have been a factor in it. And in many cases, they are colleges and universities that serve the underserved, that serve nontraditional students, that have the wraparound support services for kids who may not have had the greatest K-12 experience so, if you thought it was awful, it's even worse than awful.
And I think one of the things- I'm going to break your question down into two parts: What did I take away from it as a person, from that interaction, because it really was a powerful interaction? I spent some time on Thanksgiving, giving thanks for those folks and for people who do that was, 'Wow these folks are kind of putting themselves out there and fully out there'. And the other thing, I've had a bunch of conversations with people about that conversation. I didn't know those folks' names so I wasn't going to be disclosing their names or anything like that. But what I realized I was starting to do was become an advocate.
[28:12.480]
Suzanne Klein: Hmm.
[28:12.960]
Kevin Corcoran: I think that's one of the things that adds to the emotional bank account. We were talking earlier, as you said Bob, about the work in the community. When you see the change it may not make it all worth it, but it makes it mostly worth it. And so, becoming an advocate and becoming an advocate to say, 'yeah, okay next year when everybody's back in school, we're not done yet.' We're still dealing with the pandemic and looking for opportunities to be able to be supportive of the K-12 superintendents, but: just as important, being supportive of the teachers, being supportive of the students and their families, and not letting people just say, 'oh, that was last year. It's as if life is not a continuous journey.
[29:09.180]
Bob Maxfield: You just gave us the content for our next message to the superintendents, because I think that really is very gratifying to hear you say that you personally gave thanks for the work they do, and that you personally have become an advocate for their work. And so that's really appreciated. Suzanne. I think we've hit a home run on this opening episode of Podcast for Leaderful Schools and its new incarnation. Kevin thank you very, very much. But before we close maybe each of us has a chance to make a final statement and then we'll have a closing to do so. Sue, anything you want to say before we wrap it up?
[29:51.840]
Suzanne Klein: I like Kevin, found it an incredible conversation to be part of, because it was reminder, not only about the humanity that we share but the emotions that propel people to stay involved with, what I would say is complicated work, when you're dealing with children, families, teachers in a community of people whose hopes and dreams every day in terms of their children, walk into two schools throughout this nation. And I've been gratified to be part of that for a long time. I got reminded: about how impactful individual people's efforts are and how important it is, that as Kevin said, we keep on keeping on.
But also realize that the world has changed for many people, and it's not going to be turned off immediately once folks are healthy again and our schools reopen, but rather it's going to be returning to school whatever that reset looks like in terms of curriculum, instruction and assessment, but also the social and emotional learning that needs to be there, and the support for the children, for their families, as well as the people that work in the organization.
[31:06.180]
Bob Maxfield: Kevin, a last word for us.
[31:09.060]
Kevin Corcoran: Sure. You know, when I started college, I was a first generation college student. My father didn't graduate high school so what did I know about professions. I thought I would be a lawyer. And then I took some psychology classes and really liked it. I say that because, conversations like the conversation with the superintendents, as long as you're willing to be open to what they have to say and not looking for an opportunity to debate them, you can be transformed. If I would have gone to law school I would have learned how to debate. I went to graduate school in psychology, and I can point to a number of people that I've worked with in psychotherapy and that wasn't psychotherapy, but a number of people I've worked with in psychotherapy, who have changed me. And I'll give you one example that has a parallel to the superintendents, two different times in my career I've done support group for hospice care nurses.
[32:15.060]
Suzanne Klein: They're saints. They are amazing people.
[32:19.020]
Kevin Corcoran: And thinking about their lives has influenced mine and changed mine. I think back to our discussion about the political divide. If we went into interactions with people looking for opportunities to be changed, we would be enhanced. Our bank account would be added to and a lot more would probably get done.
[32:48.090]
Bob Maxfield: I think that qualifies as a wonderful benediction. I really do appreciate that. So Kevin Corcoran, thank you. I said at the beginning, this is one of my favorite people and I think you figured out why I said that now. So dear listeners our podcast producer, Elaine Middlekauff, reminded me to remind you that every time we make one of these recordings, we need to be public about the fact that the participants have agreed that this can be recorded and distributed. So Kevin, thank you for that. I appreciate that expression and to our listeners thank you for being part of this opening installment of the new edition, the new volume rather, of Podcast for Leaderful Schools, as always, coming to you almost live from Oakland University, in Rochester, Michigan.
[33:44.340]
Suzanne Klein: That's a wrap.