Vicki Wilson, school principal and author of Lead with Instructional Rounds: Creating a Culture of Professional Learning, is a passionate advocate of the benefit of Instructional Rounds to both students and teachers. She explains in detail that Instructional Rounds, when done well creates a collegial school culture, structures professional reflection and dialogue around the classroom observations, builds upon strength-based feedback and promotes the best instructional practices for optimal student learning. https://www.vickiwilson.org/
Vicki Wilson, the principal of the Monroe Elementary School in the Wyandotte, Michigan School District, and author of Lead with Instructional Rounds: Creating a Culture of Professional Learning, shares her views on why and how and when you use instructional rounds to both create a culture for learning, as well as support the teachers' learning.
Vicki Wilson recounted some of the experiences that shaped her approach as a school administrator and very passionate advocate for learning for both children and adults. As a fourth grade teacher, “I wasn't expecting the depth of the relationship that I had with students as individuals, but also that you have just with your class as a whole and the community that you build and the culture that you build. So that was the first thing that shaped me, is that realizing that it's so much more than sharing content with kids so that they learn it but it is about community and culture and family and getting to know each other."
The second experience Vicki Wilson recalled was as a principal in a school where she had been working previously. She visited the classrooms of teachers she knew and with whom she had taught and using a wider lens, “I realized that as I went into everybody's classroom I saw strengths that I did not know that they had and that changed me and shaped me dramatically. And I started to think about how can we leverage these strengths that are in classrooms.”
Moving beyond her walls and community and becoming an educational leader was the third experience that came later in her career as a principal. She became more connected, "reaching out beyond her district and joining the Michigan Elementary and Middle School Principals’ Association (MEMSPA) state association and building a professional learning network, getting active on Twitter and eventually writing a book."
The instructional rounds approach that staff took at Monroe Elementary School was to examine different research and best practices. “The research out of Harvard supporting ten minute visits with reflection and debriefing was a structure that felt good to us. We also like the work that Marzano discusses to be reflective educators, using the opportunities to observe colleagues to reflect on the practices you have in your classroom and think about them. Are you getting the impact that you want out of the class, out of those techniques that you're learning? Lastly we just wanted to strengthen our culture, so we looked at the research out of Gallup about strength-based employee feedback and how that contributes to greater gains. So, we made sure that we were very positive in the way we go about instructional rounds, and we talk about the positive impact that we're seeing with our kids.”
“We define it like this: instructional rounds is a process for educators, in small collaborative groups, to observe their colleagues teaching while reflecting on their own practices, followed by dialogue about the effective instruction and the impact on learning. I do believe that when adults learn more, students learn more also, and that was one piece that was really important. Are we growing ourselves as adults and knowing that there are strengths in all these other classrooms, how can we take that opportunity to do that? I don't believe we learn to our potential when we're in isolation as teachers, so how do we break down that isolation so that we can learn more?”
“To create a culture for learning for students and the adults in the school, it has to be safe for the adults to jump in and do it. You’ve got to put so much into the safety piece so that everyone can apply and compare and reflect and learn and process. It's really important for the leader to be involved in this work whether the leader's the facilitator or not. The principal needs to participate in the professional learning with their teachers and that in itself has an effect size of point eight four.“
“Teachers going on the rounds are in a deep reflective mind. They're walking in, they're observing, they're thinking about what they do with their students, and they're looking at what this person's doing. They're thinking about what we've learned about for best practices, rigor, and student success. As facilitator, my job is to step out with this group of teachers to talk about teaching and learning. I pose two strong reflective questions that will create some dialogue and discussion around the best practices we saw, the way the teacher executed it, that work that was positive and the impact that was having on the students. The teacher whose classroom we observed will get their feedback later.Upon completion of the rounds the staff that observed classrooms will write a note card to each of the teachers that we visited that validates a practice that they used with some very specific positive details and what we took away from it. The host teachers will receive five-six note cards in their mailbox that give them specific feedback on their instruction.”
"The gain for teachers is you're going to be able to see what someone else is doing and then take those very best ideas and make yourself better. What they'll find out later though, just beyond getting in someone's classroom is they're going to have such good dialogue with other colleagues in their building, it will strengthen their relationship. And they're going to see strengths of people that they didn't know that they had, so your culture is going to grow through this model."
In assessing the challenges to instructional rounds, Vicki Wilson indicated, “probably the biggest obstacle is a teacher evaluation process. It has to be presented as something completely different and separate, to the point where I hold different things in my hand when I go in during instructional rounds versus what I do when I go in for an evaluation or an observation. Obstacles to the process can be addressed with clearly communicated boundaries and guidelines, with genuine validation for teacher participation, and practices that are transparent and consistent.”
Turning to the impact of the pandemic, the challenges it revealed, and how it played out in her school, the thing that stood out so drastically to Vicki Wilson were the inequities and the obstacles students faced to get what they needed in order to learn. She identified “the important pandemic lesson learned was how do we make sure that we have equity in access and what students are given to be able to do the learning they need to do.” While change and progress in education moving at a snail’s pace has been frustrating for her, in terms of the pandemic’s impact, “I think probably the exciting piece of it is that it forced us to start to innovate and start making some changes, and start looking outside of the box. Last and I hope this comes out of the pandemic, I think what's really important is it forces us to look at our priorities in education and where we're investing our time and investing our resources. So I wish and I hope that we might look at some of the other obstacles that are preventing us from doing the true authentic work of teaching and learning for kids and for adults.”
Vicki Wilson’s ideal teacher preparation program would reflect a partnership between colleges of education and strong or model schools to be connected more deeply to the school experience and setting. “You learn your content in your college class and then you can go in and look at that instruction happening and then start to see the art of that content being delivered and how does that teacher engage those students around that content, I think that would be so powerful. When I have student teachers in the building they always go on instructional rounds with us. They learn so much from that experience and being a part of the conversation with veteran and mentor teachers. Beyond the content that's happening in their college classroom or observing in their assigned teacher's classroom is that dialogue piece with other educators after looking at learning.”
Dr. Suzanne Klein confirmed that is the model in the Oakland University Teacher Education Program. “The students are in a partner district, and they work with a cluster of teachers. The professor goes to the school for their instruction and it gives the students an opportunity to do just what Vicki Wilson suggested, see the real teaching and learning in action, make the instructional rounds, invite some of the teachers in as guest speakers, and it makes it so much more relevant, real and impactful for the students in the program.”
Finally, Vicki Wilson’s advice for a new principal is to “find a strong mentor that you can talk to, and be authentic and real with. Also don't think that you have to know it all. Ask for help don't drown, don't let yourself drown. If you've been treading water even one minute ask for help, because nobody expects you to have this mastered and know what you're doing right now and especially in a pandemic. I also recommend joining your state association; MEMSPA's the one I'm in, MASSP, whatever level you're in but join a state organization, because besides the networking and the connections you make, they also provide legal assistance that you may need and that's just important to protect yourself. And then I would just say get connected, whether through Facebook or Twitter. There are a lot of really good groups or principal communities that are really supportive. So get support within your district but also stretch beyond there with that social media or a state association.”
Wilson, Vicki, Lead with Instructional Rounds: Creating a Culture of Professional Learning, Dave Burgess Consulting, Incorporated, May 21, 2020.
Bob Maxfield:
Welcome to Podcast for Leaderful Schools, coming to you almost live from Oakland University in Rochester, Michigan, actually from the Galileo Institute at the School of Education and Human Services at Oakland University. I'm Bob Maxfield and my co-host is the ever-wonderful Dr. Suzanne Klein.
And this has been a series that's been going on for well over a year. We were kidding before we started recording that we thought we'd be talking about what life in schools would be like after the pandemic well, it just doesn't…, it’s the gift that keeps on giving. So, our conversations really have dealt more with how do we address these issues ongoing and yet keep our eye on the ball in terms of what needs to happen for schools to be the best they can be.
Today's guest is Vicki Wilson. Vicki is the principal of the Monroe Elementary School in Wyandotte, the Wyandotte Michigan School District. She's also the author of a recent book, a 2020 book, called Lead with Instructional Rounds: Creating a Culture of Professional Learning, and just from the title of her book it's pretty obvious why we've invited her to be a guest. So with that Suzanne, let me turn it over to you.
01:05 -->01:53
Suzanne Klein:
Thank you, and again welcome Vicki. It's good to see you again and watching and listening to your recent presentation where you talked about instructional rounds with a group of educators, it was clear to me we needed to have you talk with our listeners to this podcast series, because you have a lot to share about why and how and when you use that to both create a culture for learning, as well as support the teachers' learning.
So, let's start for just a moment, looking back at your career in education, you've had a distinguished career so far. Think along with us about some of the experiences that shaped your approach as a school administrator and becoming what I would say as a very passionate advocate for learning for both children and adults. Talk to us about yourself.
01:54 -->04:55
Vicki Wilson:
Thank you, Suzanne, and also thank you for having me on your podcast today. I'm really honored and delighted to be here and talk about learning and education with you. As I think back to my journey through education, the first thing that I would say really struck me is just early on becoming a teacher. As the first teacher in my family so it wasn't that I came from a family of teachers and knew exactly what to expect but it is what I wanted to do, and so what really struck me is experiencing that relationship I had with my students and early on I taught fourth grade and it's still my favorite grade, but I wasn't expecting the depth of the relationship that I had with students as individuals , but also that you have just with your class as a whole and the community that you build and the culture that you build. So that was the first thing that shaped me is that realizing that it's so much more than sharing content with kids so that they learn it, but it is about community and culture and family and getting to know each other.
The second thing and I vividly remember this, is when I became a principal and I became a principal in a school that I had been working at for three years before I became a principal of that school. And when I started to go in classrooms of teachers, teachers that I knew and teachers that I taught with, I saw like a whole new lens just such a wider lens and I realized that as I went into everybody's classroom I saw strengths that I did not know that they had, and that changed me and shaped me dramatically. And I started to think about like how do, how can we leverage these strengths that are in classrooms and having been there and knowing, not knowing somebody had their strength was huge for me.
And then the third thing, later on in my principal years, I would say even only six years ago probably, I started to become a more connected principal, so kind of reaching out beyond my district and joining my state association, joining MEMSPA, getting involved in that and building a professional learning network, started getting active on Twitter and I think those connections to kind of led me down the path that I didn't expect to ever do, was to eventually write a book even and so I think you know just kind of moving beyond my walls in my city as a principal and becoming an educator leader and being connected with others.
04:56 -->05:43
Suzanne Klein:
Wonderful, and that's one of the reasons why we're so thrilled that you're able to spend some time with us today, and thinking back about the presentation that you made several weeks ago, one of the things that struck me was you're talking about the fact that there were open doors in the school but teachers rarely went in other's classrooms, and that for you was one of those major "aha", as you started to think about your principalship work and leveraging the learning not only for students, but for their teachers as well.
So, let's dive in at that point, with this question because some of our listeners may not be that familiar with the concept of instructional rounds. Talk to us a little bit about how those come to life and why they're important.
05:44 --> 08:08
Vicki Wilson:
Absolutely. So, I should first start with instructional rounds because that can be kind of broad, and the approach that we decided to take at Monroe is we really looked at a lot of different research and best practices out there. And we really like the structure of the work out of Harvard where you go in for about 10 minutes, and then you reflect and you talk about it and you debrief, so that structure felt good to us but, also we like the work that Marzano discusses and that's to like really be a reflective educator and to use those opportunities to observe colleagues to reflect on the practices you have in your classroom and think about them and are you getting the impact that you're wanting out of those class out of those techniques that you're learning. Then also we just wanted to strengthen our culture, so you know looking at research out of Gallup about strength-based, strength-based employee feedback and how that contributes to greater gains. So, we made sure that we were very positive in the way we go about instructional rounds, and we talk about the positive impact that we're seeing with our kids.
We define it like this: instructional rounds is a process for educators, in small collaborative groups, to observe their colleagues teaching while reflecting on their own practices, followed by dialogue about the effective instruction and the impact on learning. So that's kind of, that's the approach that we take when we go in.
What I think's important to remember in here and why we wanted to do that, is that I do believe that when adults learn more students learn more also, and that was one piece that was really important. Are we growing ourselves as adults and knowing that there's strengths in all these other classrooms, how can we take that opportunity to do that? I don't believe we learn to our potential when we're in isolation as teachers so, it's how do we break down that isolation so that we can learn more?
08:09 -->08:26
Suzanne Klein:
That leads me to my next question. Obviously you feel that it's very important to create a culture for learning not only for students but for the adults in the school. Why is this important and what needs to be in place for that to be successful? What gets in the way?
08:27 --> 10:43
Vicki Wilson:
That is a good question. It has to be safe for the adults to jump in and do it and there are obstacles. Probably the biggest obstacle is a teacher evaluation process. It's really important for the leader to be involved in this work, whether the leader's the facilitator or maybe someone else is, but the leader needs to participate. The principal needs to participate in the professional learning with their teachers so, and that in itself has an effect size of point eight four.
So, the evaluation process is a huge obstacle, and it really has to be presented as something completely different and separate, to the point where I hold different things in my hand when I go in during instructional rounds versus what I do when I go in for an evaluation or an observation.
I talk about sometimes like the feeling brain and the thinking brain and your feeling brain will hold your thinking brain hostage, so the things that the feeling brain is looking out for are those obstacles. Is there any threat? Do I feel mistrust in the person leading this or someone that's involved in it? Are the boundaries set and are they clear? Are there guidelines, have they been clearly communicated on how this will be set up so that there's no surprises? How do you validate your teachers who are doing it? Will I be validated by doing it or am I going to be beat up for doing it? And it needs to be a validating experience. Is it transparent, is it consistent, does it look and feel the same every time you do it?
So, it's really that safety piece you got to put so much into that so that everyone jumps into it and can open up the learning side of their brain, so that they can apply and compare and reflect and learn and process.
10:44 -->10:45
Suzanne Klein:
What's interesting...
10:45 --> 11:22
Bob Maxfield:
And what you've just done is…To me the biggest barrier to any of this kind of mutual collaboration and observation is this whole traditional culture of schools that teaching is a really lonely profession. It's a solo act; it's done behind closed doors. And what you just did Vicki was describe the process you have to go through to begin breaking that down. It's just not enough to say, oh yeah we're going to now start doing this. I mean you've got centuries of kind of training that's been sort of beaten into many teachers.
11:23 -->11:24
Vicki Wilson:
Absolutely.
11:24-->11:55
Suzanne Klein:
What's interesting too as you described the process and talk about we, us, what happens when you're in the room, and then come back out of the room. What you're doing is painting a picture and of a culture of learning for not only for the teacher that gets some feedback, but all of the people that have been part of the rounds with you. And having heard you talk a little bit about that, would you say a little bit about that now to our listeners in terms of the value for the teacher in the classroom as well as those doing the rounds?
11:56 --> 13:43
Vicki Wilson:
Yeah, absolutely, those that are going on the rounds, the hosts that are walking into the classroom and then stepping out to talk about teaching and learning, they get… they’re the ones that are in their reflective brain. They're walking in, they're observing, they're thinking about what they do with the kids and they're looking at what this person's doing. They're thinking about what we've learned about for best practices, they're thinking about things like rigor; is the child having success in what they're doing. So, they're in this deep reflective mind. They're also looking around at, you know, just anchor charts so there's so much coming in at them.
I facilitate instructional rounds in our school so that my job is to walk out with this group of teachers, and pose a reflective question that's going to pull out some of the very best practices that are research based that we saw happening in that classroom. And that will create some dialogue and discussion around the best practice we saw, the way the teacher executed it, that work that was positive and the impact that was having on the students, and I try to pose two good strong questions that would probably be all we have enough time to talk about. Sometimes I'll get to a third but usually two is about all I need. So, they're, they start to really collaborate and have a lot of dialogue.
We go in four classrooms with one instructional round so they're going to repeat that three more times, and they are walking away just full of great ideas. They will state one at the end, like one thing I'm going to do or try next, so that they've got a goal moving forward.
13:44 -->13:45
Suzanne Klein:
Thank you.
13:45 -->14:24
Vicki Wilson:
Now the teacher that was in the classroom that we observed, they're going to get their feedback later. So, when we're all done with the rounds those that went in to observe, we all write a validating note card to each of the teachers that we saw. That validates a practice that they used and what we took away from it, with some very specific positive details in there. So later on in the day they're going to walk in and get you know, maybe five-six note cards in their mailbox that are specific and give them feedback to their instruction and teaching.
14:25 -->14:30
Suzanne Klein:
Takes us back to that whole notion of the strengths-based growth that you talked about a few minutes ago.
14:31 --> 14:32
Vicki Wilson:
Absolutely.
14:32 --> 14:33
Suzanne Klein:
Thank you.
14:34 --> 15:34
Bob Maxfield:
We'd be remiss if we didn't also involve you in discussing with us the ongoing theme of this podcast series which is, resetting and re-imagining education at a time that is really unprecedented, at this time in this pandemic and you're presented Vicki, a wonderful positive view of what needs to be happening and can be happening, regardless of the outside circumstances but, schools you know face some real challenges right now. I mean you're back to in-person learning, for a while you weren't, some districts are still out. So I guess everybody understands that the pandemic has revealed issues that probably were already there, but they're even more profound now and they've been driven home so dramatically. So talk to us a little bit about what do you think we've learned during this time, perhaps how it's playing out in your school and you know, what do we need to be able to do to kind of repair the damage that's been done?
15:35 -->19:01
Vicki Wilson:
That is a good question and a really important question. When the pandemic first hit and we all went into…even before remote, I would say, when we all went into shut down, and then tried to move into a remote type teaching, the thing that stood out so drastically was inequities, and you know the different obstacles that kids face to just get what they need in order to learn. So I think one of the important lessons that we learned early on is, how do we make sure that we have equity for all of our students in access and what they're given to be able to do the learning that they need to do. I also and Bob, you kind of mentioned it earlier, I think education can move at a snail's pace and as far as progress and does move at a snail's pace and that is frustrating to me.
So I think probably the exciting piece of it is that it forced us to start to innovate and start making some changes, and start looking outside of the box, and put us on a little bit of a faster path towards change and making things better and innovating more. Because I feel like as slow as we change in education, everything else is moving so fast and progressing so fast and if we really want to help our kids, I think we've got to try to embrace innovation and change. So I think that's a positive that will come out of it.
Last and I hope this comes is I think what's really important is, it forces us to look at our priorities in education and where we're investing our time and investing our resources. And you know we have so many standards, and we have way too many standards to be able to teach them at a depth of understanding that really makes a difference for kids. We spend a lot of time on standardized testing and last year standardized testing, you could opt out of it and many did and we still survived without every kid taking a test. And the year before that the test was just cancelled and we still survived. I think we invest a lot of time in preparing for testing and having to deal with the impact of those test scores, when we just really need to be teaching kids and instructing. And same thing with teacher evaluation, I think you know as leaders, I spent a lot of time jumping through all the teacher evaluation hoops and what I need to be doing is sitting side by side and learning with my teachers and making that much more authentic work. So I wish and I hope that we might look at some of these other obstacles that are preventing us from doing true authentic work of teaching and learning for kids and for adults.
19:02 --> 20:19
Bob Maxfield:
There's an article waiting to the written in what you just said in the last five minutes, in terms of you know, not just that I used the term repair the damage, but you're basically saying is a time to also reflect on what really matters and get some of the junk out of the way, so we can get back to what really matters. So thank you for that.
One of the other issues that we've been exploring with each of our interviews relates to the unprecedented retirement of school leaders and I'm sure in your network of principals across the state you've seen that in very large numbers. Where Suzanne and I are working with a network of superintendents who are new and we have a group of recently retired ones who are working with us, but it's amazing the number of changes that have taken place and across the state we're seeing shortages in school personnel at all levels, not just administrators but teachers and support staff.
So what do you think if you could advise us, since we're part of Oakland University in a way, as to what we can do to start to reverse these trends, to start bringing people back into the field because I just saw an article today that state universities in Arizona have stopped providing teacher training because there aren't enough students to justify it.
20:20-->20:21
Suzanne Klein:
Was it Oklahoma?
20:22 --> 20:24
Bob Maxfield:
Help us think that one through.
20:25 --> 23:37
Vicki Wilson:
I am so glad you asked that question because you know when we were talking earlier about like trying to think outside the box and being maybe a little wildly innovative, I was... I think it would be so cool to see teacher colleges to start to partner…college of educations to partner with strong schools or model schools and actually hold classes right in school. So let's say you've got a class, you know, once you start getting into education class if your…If you have a class on teaching of Reading, the science of Reading, if that class actually happened in an elementary school and you learn alone, then you go in first grade, and you get to see it happening so you learn it and you go see. Or you know, even if all education classes were housed in schools whether their secondary or elementary, you can you know you learn your content in your college class and then you can go in and look at that instruction happening and then start to see the art of that content being delivered and how is it being delivered and are the kids learning the content that you're giving and how does that teacher engage those students around that content. I think that would be so powerful. And so then if you've got these teacher candidates that are actually in there in these schools learning, you know, could they stay on then and substitute teach when they're not taking a class, or you know work as an instructional aide in these schools that they're spending time in any way? But even if your college instructor, professors took them instructional round style regularly, you know, here we're going to learn a little bit now let's go see it in action, and then have those conversations and debriefing, I think would be super powerful. It could help... with the recruit thing it's probably not going to do that part, but maybe it will because if kids could, you know, work in schools while they're learning, actually in schools and not you know, on a college campus for those education classes, could be a win-win, could help with some shortages while they're learning.
That's just my big pie in the sky idea but it's something I've thought about really since starting instructional rounds because when we bring in, when I have student teachers here in the building they always go on instructional rounds with us anytime I have any in the building. They learn so much from that experience and being able to like talk with veteran teachers, mentor teachers and being a part of that conversation as a student is super powerful, way beyond just the learning that's happening in their college classroom or even just observing in their assigned teacher's classroom is that dialogue piece with other educators after looking at learning.
23:38 --> 24:41
Suzanne Klein:
It's interesting to hear you make that suggestion and I'm smiling, and I expect that both Bob and Elaine are smiling because that is the model in the Oakland University Teacher Education Program.
Our students that are in a partner district, there's a group of students assigned to you know Addison Elementary School or you know, Bates Middle School whatever, and they work with a cluster of teachers, but the professor goes to the school for the instruction and it gives them the opportunity to do just what you suggested, see the real teaching and learning in action, make the instructional rounds, invite some of the teachers in as guest speakers, and it makes it so much more relevant, real and impactful for the students in the program. So the good news is I love your idea, and the even better news is for the students, at least in the ones in some of the Oakland programs, your wishes come true already and that's the way....
24:41 -->24:42
Vicki Wilson:
I love to hear that.
24:42-->24:43
Suzanne Klein:
Yes
24:44 --> 24:45
Vicki Wilson:
That is awesome, thank you for doing that work.
24:46 --> 25:35
Bob Maxfield:
But part of that, the other part that we've got to do is figure out how to harness the passion of people like you to reach out to those 18 and 19 year-olds who are thinking that you know, I was told never be a teacher. I've heard that over and over again, I don't want to do it. I'm sure you've got people on your staff who have said that to their very own same kids so it's a… that's part of what we have to get past too. As we run out of time, I want to give you a chance to do something that I suspect you're really, really good at and that is, that there's probably dozens, maybe hundreds of new, first year principals who are coming into their job this year at this remarkably different time, and so what advice do you have for them? What would you hope that they would do with their first and second year to become, to make themselves successful down the road?
25:36--> 27:33
Vicki Wilson:
Um yeah, first of all I'm so grateful for them doing that. I agree with you, we need to stop telling people, don't become a principal, don't become a teacher, because it's a great field and people need to do that. My advice for a new principal is to find a mentor, someone. Find a strong mentor someone that you can talk to, and be authentic and real with. Also don't think that you have to know it all. Ask for help don't drown, don't let yourself drown. If you've been treading water even one minute ask for help, because nobody expects you to have this mastered and know what you're doing right now and especially in a pandemic. Like there's, I don't know what I'm doing, I have 15 years being a principal. So you know that part's really important, and don't tread water too long, not very long at all, ask for help really quickly. I also recommend joining your state association; MEMSPA's the one I'm in. MASSP, whatever, whatever level you're in but join a state organization because besides the networking and the connections you make, they also provide legal assistance that you may need and that's just important to protect yourself in that way. And then I would just say get connected. There are a lot of really good Facebook groups if that's your thing, you know principal communities that are really supportive and people can put whatever they have going on in there and they get feedback from principals all over. Twitter's another one. So get supports you know just within your district, but also stretch beyond there with that social media or a state association.
27:34 --> 27:48
Bob Maxfield:
Good advice. So Sue, as we get near the end of our time with Vicki Wilson, what haven't we talked about that you want to be sure we mentioned?
27:49. --> 28:10
Suzanne Klein:
Well, the one thing that I remember you're speaking of the other day, and we really haven't asked you about, that you might offer advice, particularly for a new principal to tie it to the last question Vicki, is how might a principal go about having instructional rounds be something that's the staff are looking forward to participating in and giving a try, if they haven't done it before?
28:12 --> 29:47
Vicki Wilson:
My advice would be start talking about the power of being able to see your colleagues working in action, I think any teacher would love to walk into another teacher's classroom and see what they're doing and seeing what's going on, and so what instructional rounds does is it provides a structure and guideline for how to do it and as you think about, you know, that feeling brain it'll set it up so it's safe and makes it easy to participate and so that you can learn a lot from it.
So I do think that you know that's the gain for teachers is you're going to be able to see what someone else is doing and then take those very best ideas and make yourself better. What they'll find out later though, after just beyond getting in someone's classroom is they're going to have such good dialogue with other colleagues in their building, it will strengthen their relationship. And they're going to see strengths of people that they didn't know that they had, so your culture is going to grow through this model, but I think the very first thing is for teachers is you're going to go and get to see someone else teach and it's a nice way to just step away from the chaos of your own classroom for an hour and a half, and look at someone else teach and then talk about it. It's not even a long amount of time.
29:47 --> 29:55
Bob Maxfield: And start with those folks who are most comfortable doing it, and then they become the advocates for it at that point.
29:56 --> 30:12
Vicki Wilson:
The spokesperson, yeah, and you know I'm glad you said that Bob, because we always do it voluntary like no one's ever forced into doing this, but if you do it well and it's a very safe process, it is contagious and everyone will jump on board in time.
30:13 --> 30:19
Suzanne Klein:
And my guess is after a while they can't imagine the school functioning without that learning opportunity.
30:20 --> 30:29
Vicki Wilson:
Yes, the beginning of the pandemic was hard and in remote was hard because we put pause on that, because we had a lot of other problems to solve last year.
30:30. --> 30:52
Bob Maxfield:
So guess what? It's not an unnatural act; it's actually a very natural human thing to be doing. And so that all is good. Well Vicki, we really appreciate you talking with us and we will put a link to your book on our website and on the announcement that goes out about the podcast. Is there anything else you would like to make available to our listeners?
30:53 --> 31:33
Vicki Wilson:
Thank you for doing that. To the listeners, I just want to say, thank you for what you do. I want to say thank you to all the educators out there, those learning to be an educator, and all the education supporters out there. It is a tough time for educators and I just am grateful for the work that you're doing. Stay strong because this is best and the very most important work in the world. We need you and we need your heart and you know when it feels really heavy just take one step at a time.
31:34 --> 32:00
Bob Maxfield:
Those are wonderful closing words, so thank you for that. And thanks to our listeners for being part of this series of Podcasts for Leaderful Schools, coming to you almost live from Oakland University and again on behalf of Suzanne and Elaine, Vicki we'd love to thank, we want to thank you for being part of this. And so please stay tuned as we continue this ongoing dialogue about education as we move through these troubled times.
32:03 --> 32:04
Vicki Wilson: Thank you.