Imagine your students as futurists, entrepreneurs, inventors, creators of solutions to problems yet to be defined. Grayson McKinney, an influential teacher leader and co-author of the soon to be published book, The Expert Effect, proposes that in the post pandemic reset educators lean into solutions that maximize student engagement and emphasize relevant deep learning opportunities. He endorses project based inquiry to develop the skills students need to navigate their future in the transition from the Information Age to the Imagination Age.
In their podcast conversation, Dr. Bob Maxfield and Dr. Suzanne Klein invite Grayson McKinney to reprise the highlights of his presentation at the “Resetting” Teaching and Learning beyond the pandemic professional development series, sponsored by the Galileo Institute at Oakland University. Grayson reflects on the current challenges in education and proposes a design for teaching that emphasizes deep learning opportunities and increased student engagement, moving beyond the Information Age to the Imagination Age.
Grayson’s leadership is shaped by his commitment to ongoing professional growth. He received a bachelor’s degree from Western Michigan University, and both his master’s degree in Educational Studies and his Ed. Specialist degree in School Leadership from Oakland University. His teaching experience includes elementary grades, a multi-age classroom, and Spanish as a second language. Through meeting prominent global educational leaders at conferences, attending virtual webinars, and connecting with people around the world through social networks, Grayson has expanded his expertise and influence.
He credits two presentations for their positive impact on his instruction practice. Troy School District Superintendent, Dr. Richard Machesky, gave an opening school address in which he encouraged risk taking in educational decision making, and challenged staff to consider what they were able to let go of, in order to make room for something more meaningful and impactful for our students. Second, Ron Ritchhart’s presentation on student learning, thinking routines, and learning through inquiry changed Grayson’s pedagogy. A sustained inquiry project is the vehicle through which student learning becomes most relevant and long lasting. Grayson explains that for students to truly learn through the process of the project, they need the chance to play the role of the professional working on an authentic task, typically taken on by an expert, throughout their unit of study.
With an educational reset, Grayson encourages teachers “to be on the lookout for deep learning opportunities that have the potential to work for all students, as well as opportunities for students to show what they know in ways other than on a test or quiz. Deep learning experiences are achieved, not through pace and breath and getting through the content, getting through your curriculum but relevance and depth. It's not about learning loss it's about picking up students where they are and then taking them in the direction that they want to go.”
Grayson views the teaching profession as facing not only the challenge of this pandemic but one of preparing students for an unknown future, one in which we are not even aware of the jobs that may exist by the time they graduate. Grayson quotes David Warlick, "for the first time in history, we are preparing students for a world we cannot clearly describe." Grayson adds a quote by Seth Godin, "Never again is someone going to pay you to give them answers they can look up online, they will only pay you to solve problems that don't yet have answers."
Grayson expresses his enthusiasm for this new type of paradigm for education. “We're calling it the Imagination Age. The Information Age is almost over, and we need to be ready for the changes coming our way and the things that will get kids to re-engage with school. It's imagination, entrepreneurship, and creativity that will be the most valuable assets; the things that can't easily be automated and turned over to artificial intelligence." With all of this knowledge available at our fingertips the compelling question is, what will you do with that information?
George Couros inspired Grayson to “reframe everything we were doing in the classroom around the goal of either inventing new solutions to problems that we identified, or innovating and finding a better way to do something in the classroom, or campaigning to raise awareness and use our learning to make the world a better place. David Geurin argues that while we are preparing our students for a world that we cannot clearly define, there are some essential goalposts that we can aim for. I want to help my students develop those transferable skills that would help them be happy and successful, no matter what their future looks like. Students need to empathize, be engaged citizens, be upstanders not bystanders, and seek justice. We became the “5th-Grade Futurists” and produced our own podcasts.
Grayson summarizes a significant point from his presentation. “There is a difference between schooling and learning. Schooling over the past couple of decades might have been characterized by phrases such as compliance of students, rigid systems and schedules, rote memorization, and narrowly focused topics. I had the liberty of urging leaders in our region to consider the potential pitfalls of getting back to normal, if this is what normal looks like. We're at the precipice of what could be an educational reset or revolution; that things should not simply get back to normal at our earliest convenience. We're now on the brink of moving beyond these models of society and therefore these models of education too.”
Grayson makes a case for a greater role for teacher leaders for the educational reset. "Teachers are experts: they have the schooling, they have the degrees, they have the experience, they have the passion and they have the willingness to share that passion with their students. They are a wellspring of creativity and problem solving that has not been tapped into as much as it could.”
“If decisions are being made at the top of the organization, much like a pyramid, you're only tapping into 5% of the knowledge and creativity that it takes to remake the system, but the system is people. So we need to invert that pyramid and tap into that base of teacher knowledge. We need to be focused on social emotional learning as wraparound services from the schools for families. We need to be sure that Maslow's hierarchy of needs is being met before Bloom's taxonomy of higher order thinking skills. We need to make sure that we're putting the people first and again deciding what can we let go of, not just to let go of it, but in order to focus on these things that we know are more important.”
Grayson reveals that he has written a soon to be published book with his teaching partner Zach Rondot, an Oakland County elementary teacher of the year. “To give you an idea of what it's about, I'll share the subtitle, The Expert Effect: a three part system to break down the walls of your classroom and connect your students to the world. It's a book for teachers in which we share helpful tips, preferred tools, and anecdotes of how we've been able to transform our curriculum and empower students to learn from experts outside the classroom, become experts in their own right through project based learning, and in turn teach others as experts, by connecting them with authentic audiences for their learning.”
Couros, G. (2015). The Innovator's Mindset: Empower Learning, Unleash Talent and Lead a Culture of Creativity, Dave Burgess Consulting Inc.
Geurin, D. (2017). Future Driven: Will Your Students Thrive in an Unpredictable World? , David Geurin.
Godin, S. (2012) https://www.slideshare.net/giorgiotedx/unesco-touch-and-mobile-technologies-for-the-classroom-session-1 slide 20 of 66, March 22, 2012
Ritchhart, R. & Church M. (2020). The Power of Making Thinking Visible, Jossey-Bass.
Warlick, D (2007) Classrooms for the Future Presentation, Landmark Project https://handouts.davidwarlick.com
Bob Maxfield:
Welcome to the Podcast for Leaderful Schools coming to you, almost live from Oakland University in Rochester, Michigan now coming to you, almost live via Zoom, and via our podcast platform. This is Bob Maxfield, your host and I'm joined by my wonderful co-host, Dr. Suzanne Klein.
We're trying to figure out how many years we've been doing this, but this is about year 15 of the podcast series. And this year we're focusing on what we're calling "The Great Reset", resetting public education as we come out of the pandemic, and so our guests have in one way or another dealt with that issue.
Today we're just delighted to have with us one of the really outstanding teacher leaders in the metropolitan Detroit area and that's Grayson McKinney, and so we're just going to begin. I'm not gonna say much about Grayson because as you listen to what he has to say, you're going to come to appreciate this guy so, Grayson welcome. We're glad to have you with us, and let me just begin by you giving a little bit of background, about your professional background and what you're currently doing.
[01:04.860]
Grayson McKinney:
Yes, thank you so much for having me. It is a real pleasure to be with you today and an honor to address your audience that you've been growing for the last 15 year, of educators around the world. So I've been a teacher since 2007, teaching students in every grade from kindergarten through sixth, I've taught Spanish as a second language, I've taught in a multi age classroom, I've co-taught a class of 54 fourth graders at the same time, and currently though I'm a general education teacher, teaching fifth grade in the Troy School District in Oakland County, Michigan.
So I completed my undergraduate work at Western Michigan University, but then went on to receive my master's degree from Oakland University in Educational Studies and most recently earned my ED. Specialist degree in School Leadership, also from Oakland University. And so that also makes me both an aspiring administrator and maybe one day educational consultant, and something that I'm especially proud of is that this year I will also be adding the title of “author” to that list, but more about that later.
[02:16.110]
Bob Maxfield: We were hoping you would get to that.
[02:18.720]
Suzanne Klein:
Wonderful Grayson and what folks that are listening to this podcast will soon get a sense of is why you are considered a very influential teacher leader, not only in your school district, but in the region. Talk to us for a minute about what those experiences have been that have shaped your development along the way, not only your academic work, but some of the other opportunities that have come your way or that you sought out Grayson.
[02:44.370]
Grayson McKinney:
Right, so this was a lot of fun to reflect on and one thing that stuck out to me was that a number of years ago, our district's current superintendent, Dr. Richard Machesky welcomed our district back in August with a keynote address and at that speech that he gave, he challenged our staff to be willing to take risks in our educational decision making.
He asked us to consider what we were able to let go of in order to make room for something more meaningful and impactful for our students. And that was something I really took that challenge as permission to step outside of my own comfort zone, and when I shared with you that I had taught, I co-taught a class of 54 fourth graders, that came out of that.It was a lot of fun, but when I look back at like the type of teacher I was before that shift, you know I kind of shudder to think on everything that my students missed out on.
Of course, when you know better, you know you need to do better. And so, in the years since I've been able to create learning experiences for my students that I feel like have been inspirational to others, and that's one of the ways that I consider myself to be a teacher leader.
In the introduction I gave you kind of a long list of institutions I've attended and the degrees I've earned but one of the most influential experiences that shaped my development as a teacher leader has been the professional learning that I've been a part of since graduating. It's been the learning that I've done outside of the places you typically think of when it comes to education, like a classroom or a university lecture hall.
And it's been connecting with people around the world through Twitter chats, and Facebook groups and, most recently Clubhouse discussions. It's been through meeting educational influencers at conferences and attending virtual webinars hosted by experts.
And one of those game changing experiences occurred while learning from Ron Ritchhart, who is a global thought leader when it comes to pinpointing what it actually looks like when students are learning. You know he's the author of several books, including his latest, The Power of Making Thinking Visible.
And hearing him speak about the way in which students learn most effectively was hugely eye opening. He describes what it means to learn through inquiry and he's created you know, a whole arsenal of tools in the form of thinking routines to shape that inquiry. And I consider it one of the big turning points in my career. You know it was by learning from him that, finally, it finally clicked with me that projects and inquiry is not just something that teachers can tack on at the end of a unit, or something that's given in the hopes of allowing students to, you know earn extra credit for the grade book but rather these sustained inquiry projects are the vehicle through which learning becomes most relevant and long lasting.
A friend of mine also from Michigan and a mentor, Trevor Muir, he's a professor at Grand Valley State University, describes this idea in a very tangible way that I love. He calls these kinds of last minute add-ons as dessert projects, meaning that they're not necessary to the actual learning and sometimes better if left on the plate. You know project based learning shouldn't be just something that only comes at the end of a unit; it should be the main course.
So, in order for students to truly learn through the process of the project I believe that students need the chance to play the role of the professional working on an authentic task that could be taken on by the true expert throughout their unit of study.
So another facet of my teacher leadership has been that I'm an evangelist for getting teachers to give their students those opportunities, and also the opportunity to show what they know in ways other than on a test or on a quiz. You know, other than the worksheets and in the workbooks, we need to be on the lookout for deep learning opportunities that are meaningful and stick with them for long after they've left our classrooms.
[06:48.540]
Bob Maxfield:
You know, we were going to jump to another question that really deals with a broad theme of resetting but I’d like to jump ahead a little bit. Recently and we were all really impressed, you were a keynote presenter at a series that Dr. Klein has been sponsoring along with Larry Thomas. A multi-session series on teaching and learning after the pandemic and you delivered a powerful message that day, and it was a message that you certainly began to describe as the sense of it. Talk a little more about what you shared with that group of 80 or so participants in that workshop.
[07:23.610]
Grayson McKinney:
Yeah that was a huge honor for me and what an amazing concept too, getting together superintendents, principals, central leadership teams, and teacher leaders together, with the ISD (Intermediate School District) and RESA (Regional Education Service Agencies) leadership across the three biggest counties in Michigan to find out what's working and what needs to change, so I was honored to be asked, and it was a great opportunity to connect with those people.
In that speech, I was able to talk about the difference between schooling and learning, and how to create more opportunities for the later, learning that have the potential to work for all students.
If we were to define much of the schooling that's happened in the last couple of decades, you know you might, it's easy to look back and see all the flaws, but we might use words like compliance of students, kind of rigid systems and schedules, rote memorization, and narrow focused and kind of isolated topics, we learn math in the morning, we learn reading in the afternoon and those two shall never touch. But in my presentation, I had the liberty of urging leaders in our region to consider the potential pitfalls of getting back to normal, if this is what normal looks like.
So I guess the main point I was trying to make is that we're at the precipice of what could be an educational, you call it a reset or a revolution; that things should not simply get back to normal at our earliest convenience. Our profession is facing not only the challenges of this pandemic but also, a more existential crisis as well and that's the one of preparing our students for an unknown future, one in which we are not even aware of the jobs that may exist by the time they get there.
So the assumptions that we make about what students need to learn are no longer valid, if they ever were and, for instance, one of the things I shared was if the purpose of higher education or education in general is to prepare students for a career, we certainly face a challenging situation because the top 10 in demand jobs in this decade didn't exist 10 years earlier.
And the U.S. Department of Labor has estimated that today's learner will have 10 to 14 jobs by the time they're my age. And I won't say what age that is, but if anything, we need to find ways to teach 10 to 14 jobs. We need to teach them to be flexible, to be able to adapt and to be resilient, and you know that's kind of been thrust upon us. David Warlick puts it this way, he says, "for the first time in history, we are preparing students for a world we cannot clearly define."
So you know, I believe that a big disconnect happens when school is run in the way that it was run for us. Kids today are feeling a disconnect. And the people who have become teachers and leaders in great part I think we're the ones, for whom that model worked. And through a combination of maybe nostalgia or lack of imagination school has continued in great part in the same way it has for generations with only minor changes right, basically the same way, it was run in the Industrial Age and in the Information Age.
But in that keynote speech, I was able to share that educators need to realize that we're now on the brink of moving beyond these models of society and therefore these models of education too. Right. Now that we're able to take all of this knowledge that's available at our fingertips, the question we need to be asking is, what will you now do with that information that you have?
So I love this new type of thinking, this new paradigm, you know it's going to bring a change, in not only the way that our global culture and economy but also education. We're calling it the Imagination Age, which I love. In other words the Information Age is almost over, and we need to be ready for the changes coming our way, which are good things, and the things that will get kids to re-engage with school. It's imagination, entrepreneurship, and creativity that will be the most valuable assets; the things that can't easily be automated and turned over to artificial intelligence, right.
Seth Godin, who's this brilliant guy, says "never again is someone going to pay you to give them answers they can look up online, they will only pay you to solve problems that don't yet have answers." So I think that's really relevant and you mentioned Larry Thomas. He recently shared with me a great article from the Harvard Business Review, which kind of gives a good summary of where we're at. So far we are we're currently trying to prepare students for jobs that don't exist yet and jobs that they will be acquiring learning from, and then moving on from, using technologies that haven't been invented, in order to solve problems that we don't even know are problems yet.
So if we were to hope just to tell students what we know, in order for them to be able to do what we do, we've seriously misunderstood the task that's required of us at this point in time. So one of the answers I tried to put forward to deal with the situation is the necessity for opportunities for deeper learning. You know, deep learning experiences are achieved, not through pace and breath and getting through the content getting through your curriculum but relevance and depth and so that's one thing that this pandemic has, one positive thing I would say is that we have been unable to match the pace of years before. And so it gives us the chance to breathe a little bit and go deeper into the things that are relevant, so the key is to make learning rigorous yet relevant to the students that you have in front of you, you know their hopes their dreams and their needs.
So basically an easy way to remember this, is that it's better to be the one who poses new questions than the one who memorize his old answers. And deep learning gives students the chance to have their authentic questions answered in a way that's meaningful to them.
[13:44.520]
Suzanne Klein:
Grayson I'm going to build on your comments. Again, the workshops that we were referring to have been designed for teams of teacher leaders, principals, central office types to come together and look at some of those same questions and wrestle with some of those ideas. And what you just pulled into view that I want to focus on for a few moments, is this notion for the school districts, who are looking to move in the right direction, and what are those powerful leadership moves to support learning, both for teachers and for students. How do we now capitalize and build on the wonderful work that teacher leaders have supported during the pandemic? They certainly have responded to challenges, but as you're just talking, there's a lot of opportunities that are now better understood, some of the work of Ron Ritchhart and others like him, and some of the other folks that you recently have talked about with our workshop group and mentioned here. How do we sustain that work going forward, how do we build on it, how do we incorporate it so it becomes as part of business as usual?
[14:54.060]
Grayson McKinney:
Right well, so this is a great question because when, I can remember it. It was an email, we got about a year ago from our central leadership team, and it was to all of what we call in our district, the tech technology chairs or tech chairs. And these are people scattered across the whole district, who are you know, the people who use the technology, who try to do innovative things and then also try to help their staffs to get on board. And they pulled that team together and basically said, like we need to figure out what this is going to look like, and so it was the teacher leaders that were called on to help see the way forward, because it's something that they're experienced with and passionate about, but in addition to that, you know, over the last 18 months I think all teachers have earned the right to call themselves teacher leaders right. We've collectively moved mountains, to try and maintain you know the highest quality of education for our students, despite the circumstances. And teachers are heroes, and I hope that recognition is something that we're able to sustain going forward.
Now I'll share what I know is an unpopular opinion, unlike many people I always like to say that reinventing the wheel is actually a good thing. Right, or the other, the most dangerous phrase in education is "Well we've always done it this way." We need to push back on that and to me leaning into your teacher leaders is the perfect way to reinvent the wheel.
Teachers are experts, they have the schooling, they have the degrees, they have the experience, they have the passion and they have the willingness to share that passion with their students. You know teachers spend so much time, so much of their own personal time preparing lessons, giving feedback, taking part in professional learning and making connections, you know to outside experts for their students, and so they are a wellspring of creativity and problem solving that I don't think has been really tapped into as much as it could.
You know if decisions are being made at the top of an organization, if you can picture the pyramid you're only tapping into 5% of the knowledge and creativity that it takes to remake the system. And, most people do agree that there needs to be changes made to the system, but the system is people. So we need to invert that pyramid and tap into the base of it, you know the power of the people, the teachers, and we need to change the mindsets, skills, and give them the training for making the right decisions, putting you know, tapping into that knowledge.
We need to really redefine what teaching and learning can look like in order to save public schooling. And it isn't going to come from some outside hire or someone you pay, you know, thousands of dollars to spend a day lecturing in your district. The answer to most of the problems that we face, I think can be found, right here in house. And we just need to pass the microphone and let them share their voices and just continue to do that because they got us through the last year and it will continue on if we let them.
[18:07.080]
Bob Maxfield:
But at the heart of the questions though, is how do we sustain that? There's a -Yes, for sure we've heard from superintendent saying, "Boy I have a newfound appreciation for the teacher leaders in my district. They're doing stuff I never thought they could have done".
I think the danger is going back, as you said, to the way we always did it. You know right now we're arguing about should we be re-instituting the state tests. We're arguing about learning loss. In a previous interview with Lou Glazer he talked about what damning thought that is, that we become obsessed with what the kids have missed over the last year. The danger is just demanding the teacher sort of force feed them to try to make up for that. So what's the message from your perspective for superintendents and principals moving forward?
[18:57.570]
Grayson McKinney:
You know that we paused our teacher evaluations, we paused the state tests and the sky didn't fall. Those things are- You know the things that we need to be focused on is the social emotional learning, you know wraparound services from the schools for families, because you know we-there was a great movement called-people were talking about making sure that Maslow's hierarchy of needs was being met before Bloom's taxonomy of higher order thinking skills, you know what I mean? We need to make sure that we're putting the people first and yet letting- again going back to what our superintendent Dr. Machesky asked us what can we let go of, not just to let go of it, but in order to focus on these things that we know are more important.
{19:57.300]
Suzanne Klein:
Grayson what else would you like our listeners to know about you and the important work of a teacher leader who day to day to day is looking out for the best interest of their students, connecting with families, sharing ideas with other teachers in the building, working on that ongoing improvement, looking at coherence across the school district so there's a high quality of teaching and learning for every child, regardless of what their zip code or home addresses, what would you like to make sure that folks keep in mind?
[20:32.640]
Grayson McKinney:
Well, I would be remiss if I didn't take you know this opportunity to lift up the voices of my own students as well. I told my fifth graders that I'd be talking with you today for the Leaderful Schools Podcast and they were very excited. So I'd like to share with you that, through the years, one of my proudest achievements as a classroom teacher has been the production of our own student podcasts.
And I guess before I can tell you that story, I have to tell you this story. My class’s thematic nicknames used to be cutesy things like “the McKinney monsters”, or you know the “4th grade fishies” at one point, that kind of thing. But then one year, I had the opportunity to learn from George Couros who's the author of The Innovator's Mindset.
And I was so inspired by this Canadian man that right then and there, like in the middle of his breakout session, I decided our class needed to be re-branded as the 4th grade Innovators. We used that as a chance to reframe everything that we were doing in the classroom around the goal of either inventing new solutions to problems that we identified, or innovating and finding a better way to do something in the classroom or campaigning to raise awareness and use our learning to make the world a better place. And the neat thing is that the fourth grade sections at our school are still known as the innovators so I'm very proud of that legacy.
But when I moved up to teach fifth grade I had to find a new nickname for my classroom and over the course of a couple summers ago I read an amazing book by David Geurin called Future Driven. Will Your Students Thrive in an Unpredictable World? and so in this book he lays out the argument that while we are preparing our students for a world that we cannot clearly define, there are some essential goalposts that we can aim for.
And it's all of those things, all of those soft skills, things that can't be assessed on a quiz or a test that are the most important things to help them thrive. And I wanted to help my students develop those transferable skills that would help them be happy and successful, no matter what their own future looks like. You know, things like ready to empathize, ready to be engaged citizens, you know seeking justice, that's been a huge theme this year, and to be up standers not bystanders and so on, so we became the fifth grade futurists after that.
So, with that in mind, we created a mission statement for our classroom. We pledged that we would use our learning to improve our own lives, improve the lives of others, and improve the environment around us. And one way we found to do this was to create a podcast which we call the fifth grade futurist podcast. So we're in our third season now and we would be honored if you listen to our episodes by downloading them from any major podcasting platform.
And then the other thing I wanted to share before we ended was in the beginning, you might remember I shared that I have been an educational blogger for a number of years at Innovation 4 Education dot WordPress dot COM, (innovation4education.WordPress.com) but I'm in the process of writing a book with my teaching partner Zach Rondot who, by the way was the Oakland County elementary teacher of the year and also a recent graduate of the Galileo Teacher Leadership Academy.
And the book we're writing is called The Expert Effects with EduMatch Publishing, and to give you an idea of what it's about, I'll share the subtitle, The Expert Effect: a three part system to break down the walls of your classroom and connect your students to the world. It's a book for teachers in which we share helpful tips, preferred tools, and plenty of anecdotes of how we've been able to transform, you know, taking our curriculum and then empowering students to learn from experts outside the classroom, become experts in their own right through project based learning, and in turn teach others as experts, by connecting them with authentic audiences for their learning.
So that's what I would share with superintendents, is that it's that type of learning that we should be looking at and it's not something that we can measure.It's not about learning loss it's about picking up students where they are and then taking them in the direction that they want to go. And so, this is something that I'm very passionate about hopefully that's come across and it's something I tried to give my class the chance to do on a weekly basis.
Because the notion that learning is only most exciting or most impactful when the teacher has a significant amount of knowledge about whatever your content, is misguided. Because I think the most dynamic examples of learning happen when the teachers are learning something alongside with their students. You know it breeds a whole new dimension of life and vitality into the content when both the students and adults are mesmerized by what they're finding out.
And so that type of learning experience you know it's time that we take the next step it's time to teach the things that scare us that you know the things that you may not know personally about. But reach out to your Community. Superintendents can help teachers make connections with community leaders or industry leaders. And you know, we need to get our kids learning about things that it personally scares me to think about artificial intelligence and coding, and we've heard a lot about the shortage of the semiconductors. I have no idea what that is, but we need our students to know about it, so we need to step outside of our comfort zone, we need to step outside of our classroom and we really need to see the world as our new school yard.
[26:23.190]
Bob Maxfield:
When can we look forward to seeing the book?
[26:26.940]
Grayson McKinney:
It should be ready in the next few weeks. We have not set a date yet, but I know for sure it's going to be within 2021, so we're in the process. I will send you send you a copy, and you can have Zach Rondot back on.
[26:49.470]
Suzanne Klein:
Wonderful .
[26:50.880]
Bob Maxfield:
As we near the end of our time I began by saying, our theme is resetting post pandemic, and what you've done magnificently is present a vision of what schools, after the pandemic can be, and perhaps need to be, because you've used words that we're not hearing people use all that time words like innovators, and experts, and imagination, and futurists, and empowering kids to be producing podcasts and whatever. I mean it's just a very different approach. So shame on us if we go back to the good old days, and shame on us if we go back to only force feeding kids to make up for supposed learning loss. So with that Suzanne any final comments from you, before we wrap it up?
[27:38.640]
Suzanne Klein:
Grayson thank you so much for your time this afternoon. I look forward to reading your book and learning more.
[27:45.420]
Grayson McKinney:
Well, thank you so much for the opportunity to speak with you today and I value the connections that we've made so much, and I really appreciate it, thanks.
[27:54.720]
Bob Maxfield:
Well, thank you. So to our listeners, thank you for being part of this installment of Podcasts for Leaderful Schools, again almost live from Oakland University. We do always make the note at the end that our guest has given permission for this to be distributed, of course it will be, So you can look forward to seeing that, so please stay tuned for our next episode of Podcast for Leaderful Schools, and that's a wrap.
References:
Couros, G. (2015). The Innovator's Mindset: Empower Learning, Unleash Talent and Lead a Culture of Creativity, Dave Burgess Consulting Inc.
Geurin D. (2017). Future Driven. Will Your Students Thrive in an Unpredictable World?,David Geurin.
Ritchhart, R. & Church M. (2020). The Power of Making Thinking Visible: Practice to Engage and Empower All Learners, Jossey-Bass.